Snowflake: Canon Love

[author_by_night]

Whether it is to fix-it, honor it, or expand upon it, canon is why we are all here. So, let's celebrate canon today and talk about our favorites. Nostalgic, new, problematic, or forever canons are all welcome to be loved, dissected, and discussed. Have a favorite scene? A much-loved character? A much-maligned character? Just love the whole thing epically? Talk about it all or as little as you want!

This is going to be multifandom. Alphabetical order. I'm going to give some brief, slightly random thoughts. Feel free to bounce off of them. Spoilers for Buffy, Harry Potter, Schitt's Creek. I also talk about Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, but no real spoilers.



Buffy the Vampire Slayer

I've realized, in listening to podcasts, how shafted Anya was. I wish she'd been the one to leave Xander at the altar. I like Xander more than most fans, but while I do think he loves Anya, I don't think he respects her as much as he should, and frankly, I know a few people in that situation IRL. It's horrible to see and Anya deserved better.

Also, unpopular opinion, but I liked Dawn. There. I said it.

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend

Such an underrated show, and I think there's far too little in-depth dialogue about it. I really should do my own analysis. In short, I think that the feminist themes are incredibly important, as are the themes of understanding mental health issues. It's good stuff.

Firefly

A very quick thought: I love how in charge of her sexuality Inara is. Especially for a show in the early 00's. I know some people think the "space whore" thing is demeaning, but when I rewatched Firefly last spring, that's not what I took away from it.

Harry Potter

With some things happening in my country (the US), I look at the books a bit differently now. I always felt JK Rowling drew from her experience working for Amnesty International, which is why she didn't take a more nuanced approach, which is what I think much of fandom would have preferred. (Then again, I remember people talking about Buffy as an example of nuance, and I don't know, the morality on that show tends to be similarly "this is good and this is bad," IMHO. With the exception of Spike, but Harry Potter has Snape, who I see as a similar character.)

Anyway, back to what I read differently. One example is Marietta Edgecombe. I feel a lot less sympathy for her these days. I never quite felt sorry for her, but now I really see the severity of what she did. I'm still not comfortable with a teenage girl being permanently scarred, but... imagine if in the US, someone reported a classmate to ICE. I wouldn't want them permanently scarred, but you can bet I would fully support never speaking to that classmate again, nor anyone who defended their actions.

ETA: In case it needs to be said, I in no way condone JK Rowling's transphobia, nor some of the problems with the canon text. Unfortunately she turned out to be a terrible person. However, parts of her books have always resonated with me, and this one is more recent. Unfortunately.

Schitt's Creek

I was hesitant to get into Schitt's Creek, but I'm glad I did. I love that Schitt's Creek is pure comedy, while also very intelligent. Don't get me wrong, I love Crazy Ex-Girlfriend and The Good Place, but it's nice to have a show that just shows how the world could be, as opposed to how the world really is in a sometimes comedic way, sometimes a very serious and scary way. I just wish it weren't over right when we really need it.

Also, I still have no idea what country it's supposed to be in. I've finally settled for the headcanon that either Johnny or Moira is from the US, the other is from Canada, so they lived in New York but Schitt's Creek is a few hours outside Toronto. Though why Alexis wouldn't just move to Toronto... I don't know. Perhaps it's easier not to think about it too much.

Comments

[sperrywink]

I liked Dawn too. And I never thought about it, but Anya could certainly have done better. I kinda remember liking the stories where she dated Giles instead.

Ooohh, good parallels between Marietta and ICE. Never thought about that as well.

I really enjoyed your thoughts.

[author_by_night]

Thanks!

Hm, Giles/Anya would've been interesting. Or Anya/Spike. I very lowkey ship them. Very lowkey, not a huge ship, but I sort of like the idea.

[gillo]

There are a lot of stories essentially based on what happened between Giles and Anya in Tabula Rasa. Anya is treated like a child so much, even when she has a very sexual relationship with Xander. She's actually older than any other character, even the Master. (Possibly Olaf is a year or two older?) She may be uncomfortable with her humanity, but she is an adult. Giles is an adult too.

Inara is so totally in control. I just wish Mal and Jayne didn't call her by that name.

Interesting set of canon.

[author_by_night]

You're right, Anya really is treated like a child. I know she can be overly blunt, but then, Xander can as well.

Good point that she's actually older than any other character!

[lunabee34]

I also like Xander a lot more than many fans, and I like Dawn, too!

[tjs_whatnot]

I haven't finished watching Buffy or Schitt's Creek, but I like Zander and am surprised to hear many didn't? Weird. And yes, on Firefly and Inara owning her sexuality. I think Space Whore is probably demeaning, but I think Whedon does a really good job of turning things on their head and making us look at them differently, and this is one of those things. ♥

And interesting to think that it's never established where exactly Schitt's Creek is. Makes me think even more so that it's Canada. ♥ ♥

[gillo]

Xander becomes more problematic the further you go into BtVS. The way he treats Anya can be dire at times, and there's a very strong strain of Nice Guy Who Thinks That Entitles Him about him.

[author_by_night]

I think the general consensus is that they're in Canada, I just get confused because of some later details I just now realized might be spoilery. But yes, apparently a lot of Canadian shows keep the setting vague, interestingly.

When you rewatch the show, you realize Xander is VERY much a Nice Guy, and later on disrespectful of his girlfriend. (Not sure how far along you are.) At least the Nice Guy stuff stops probably by season four or five.

[jedi_of_urth]

There should be more love for CXG, also I could stand to listen to some of the songs again, so many of them were really good.

I never quite felt sorry for her, but now I really see the severity of what she did. I'm still not comfortable with a teenage girl being permanently scarred, but... imagine if in the US, someone reported a classmate to ICE

I haven't read the books in a while, but I can't remember if she got hit with truth serum when she dobbed them in. Or at the very least wasn't able to lie to a teacher/authority figure who was questioning her direction. If she sought Umbridge out, then yeah that deserves blame, but I think there is still room for understanding. That said, I never had a problem with Hermione's ploy in story since it seems like something a teenager would think was fitting without weighing the nuances.

[author_by_night]

That was the movies! No, in the books she pretty much seeks Umbridge out. It's excused because her mother works for the MoM, but still a crummy thing to do.

I do wish there were more CXG love. And sadly, the community I did find for it was very much based around surface level squee. Which is totally fine, I like a lot of things on a surface level and am totally fine with it, but sometimes I want to dig deeper, which was the case here.

[jedi_of_urth]

It makes sense I was getting the books and movies confused; like I said I haven't read the books in a while (or seen the movies for that matter); and, as far as I recall, the explanation is pretty quick in the book so I was probably back filling in details from somewhere else.

In an odd kind of way, I think CXG wears it's depth so openly that it's practically a surface feature. Not quite at the squee level, but you don't exactly have to dig. On the other hand I know that I for one find some of its topics so heavy and presented so frankly that I find it hard to talk about or go back to.

[mierke]

Also, unpopular opinion, but I liked Dawn. There. I said it.
Hi! Me too!

A very quick thought: I love how in charge of her sexuality Inara is.
YES YES YES. I never saw the whole demeaning part, really. I mean, sure, Mal looks down on her, but it's also very obvious that that's an issue on his part, probably at least as much to do with the fact that he likes her as it has with jer job.

I really should watch Schitt's Creek some day.

[author_by_night]

I think there were plotlines in store for Inara that are... disturbing, to say the least, but from what we were given, that wasn't the case, and who knows what actually would have happened had the show continued.

And yes, it's clearly meant to be a Mal issue. Interestingly, since he was once quite religious, I wonder how much of it is also carry-over from that period of his life.

[rhoda_rants]

Yes, to Marietta Edgecomb deserving what she got, but also I'm a lot less sympathetic to Cho Chang now than I was then. Her friend CLEARLY did not want to be there from the get-go. She endangered everyone by dragging her along.

Obviously this doesn't apply to the movie version, where it's heavily implied Umbridge only got information out of Cho by using Veritaserum. In fact, there are a lot of places where the movie and book canons diverge in really interesting ways.

And I liked Dawn too. :) I've talked a lot more people who like her than don't, honestly. I wonder if that opinion has gone by the wayside now?

[author_by_night]

Yeah, it's not like Marietta said "fine Cho, I will do this for you" and pretended to like it. She glared at Cho the entire time. I have a whole headcanon where Cho herself realizes this, and eventually distances herself from Marietta. In the same headcanon, I acknowledge that Cho was dealing with a lot of trauma and not... totally "home" during OoTP, either. Very similar to Harry, actually. There's actually a really interesting parallel between them where Cho's response is to be all emotional and sad, and Harry's is to be angry.

The only thing I didn't like about the movie twist is that we then never see Harry acknowledge the difference TO Cho.

I've seen some fans say that they disliked her more when they were younger, so that might have something to do with it as well. But I also wonder if it's not more that people who don't like Dawn are very strong about it, so it's not as universal of an opinion as it seems?

[jedi_of_urth]

Yeah (again, as I recall), Marietta was always presented as not that into it, never happy to be there, and therefore the weak link in the chain; which as a secret rebellion army you really shouldn't have. But, as I was discussing with someone else a couple days ago, we know so little of what happens outside Harry's POV in the books, so we don't know why she kept coming for so long, or why she eventually decided to snitch. We only have Cho's brief version of events and it doesn't explain a lot.

I'd forgotten that it was actually Cho in the movies, along with there the truth serum part came in. And both of those things definitely mean Harry should have acknowledged what really happened. In the books, since all we have is Cho's account of what someone else did, Harry's not very interested in listening to excuses; and since even he had noticed Marietta wasn't happy to be there he sort of went in assuming there was no good excuse. But he actually knows Cho, and he knows she didn't turn them in on purpose, so he should definitely acknowledge it.


I can't speak for others, but for me it's less Dawn the character (I"m mostly indifferent to her) and more what Dawn represents in terms of the story. Between the connected points on the rewrite of the show's history and her having what can at times feel like unearned importance to the story/characters. Along with I certain feeling like the show is regressing, that the Scoobies were growing up and now we're resetting to care about this kid (not all her fault; for some reason the show treats the Scoobies like they're suddenly in their upper-20s instead of barely 20, so the age difference feels greater). Like with HP though, it's been a while since I actually engaged with canon so I'm going off memory here.

[rhoda_rants]

Yeah, Cho's response is to get weepy, and Harry's is to yell. Both of which are emotional responses! It is fair that we only get to know Cho during her absolute worst year. She's got a lot going on in Year 5 and that's essentially when we were introduced to her.

Y'know, I do remember the Dawn hate seeming more prominent when it was first airing. And now I wonder if it's just that so many of us have annoying younger siblings and projected that annoyance onto Dawn when she showed up. That, plus her being a newbie, and having her presence there just not explained for the longest time.

---

[spikedluv]

Yay for more squeeing about Schitt's Creek! I love reading it. *g*

[why_me_why_not]

Agree about Inara! Mal tries to put down her profession, but she handles his nonsense and herself in a great manner, and it's very sex-postive and sexworker-positive! (also, how open she and Kaylee are when it comes to discussing sex)