Fandom shift

[author_by_night]

So there's a lot of talk these days about the "death of fandom," usually attributed to LJ sucking, Dreamwidth (which I personally think could replace LJ if it caught on more), other social media (tumblr primarily gets the blame, but twitter and Facebook as well), and so forth.

I think that fandom IS changing, and for those of us who were into it "back then", the changes are depressing. Of course, "back then" is totally relative to not only when you got into fandoms, but where.

For me, "back then" was the early 2000s. I started out at the AOL Harry Potter messageboards - good lord, what a wank storm. But an awesome wank storm. Around the same time I got into ecfans, one of the few Earth's Children websites and certainly the largest. The Harry Potter boards I went to tended to change, sometimes going in a circle, but I largely visited forums and websites. Around 2004 I got into LJ... however, LJ was really only for Harry Potter fandom and some of my lesser fandoms - with Earth's Children, it was always primarily that one site.

I've seen people on LJ who have only ever been on LJ say that LJ IS real fandom, though, because they never got into messageboards. At the same time, I have friends who used to go on usenet, so to them that's "old fandom." (Or so I assume?) Nobody's really right or wrong, it's just all relative.

But I think that the other problem is that the internet has changed drastically in that "everyone" is into it, and in that people use it a lot differently now - it's not a matter of mailing lists versus messageboards versus LJ, but the purpose itself.

Although I'm no social media scholar (and I'm skeptical of most people who say they are, because it's often like they did the equivalent of looking up a country on LonelyPlanet and writing a 500 page book about it), I think it's safe to say that the internet has become less interactive. One of the things that made messageboards fun was the fact that fans could talk to each other. Now the idea is that you generally send out ideas, rather than topics. The sharing element is still there, but it's not interactive sharing. There's no real discussion. And if that's why you loved fandom, that might suck.

Additionally, I think that fandom's been hit by a lack of "blockbusters" that really took off on the internet, or that seemed to collide fanbases. When I first got into the Harry Potter fandom, I also knew a lot about Buffy. Back then, I'd never seen Buffy.  I had no idea who the hell this Spike guy was or why everyone compared Remus to some Giles person and shipped them in some cases. But I heard about those characters all the time, and a lot of my friends were in both fandoms. The fandoms seemed to play off of each other. Then the Lord of the Rings movies came out, and suddenly not only were people comparing Willow to Hermione, they were comparing Gandalf to Dumbledore. I don't think we've really had any sort of intertwining that since. (Have we? I could be wrong, so someone please tell me if I have.) Meanwhile, the Harry Potter fandom has quieted down a lot  and seems to be primarily memes and ficfests these days, and I think it's the same with Buffy and LOTR fandom. I'm not really sure, though.

This isn't to say people aren't enjoying the same things - a lot of them are. But they're not necessarily crazy about the same things. And I think that makes a huge difference too - buzz feeds off of buzz. It seems to me everyone's now in their own pockets. Even though LJ does allow for discussion, I have to say, I hardly see any even in fan comms I've joined. Of course, LJ has also really complicated the way notes work, so that's part of the problem. (I'm honestly surprised DW hasn't kicked off more, as it IS more like old school LJ that was comment friendly.)

And all of this being said, do I really think it means fandom's dying? No. I think, like everything online, it's just that it's changing. I do miss the way people would interact and hope something comes along that's about interaction again, but I think it's still alive and kicking. It's just kicking different places.

ETA: Just to clarify, I'm not talking about the Harry Potter fandom specifically - it was/is my primary fandom so that's why I use it as my main example. I'm talking about fandom, period.

Comments

[bemkah.livejournal.com]

I don't think fandom itself is dying - I think it may be changing from how fans used to interact with one another however. The Doctor Who fandom for example is definitely live and well.

I also don't think the internet has become less interactive - the whole point of Web 2.0 applications is that everything becomes MORE collaborative. Everything now is about generating content, becoming an author, adding to what was already there. Most fandoms now have their own wikis that anyone with a computer can ad to and edit. That forums aren't as big a thing anymore doesn't mean that everything is less interactive. Look at memes. Look at tumblr, facebook, twitter. Everyone has an opinion, and nowadays it seems like people express this opinion through videos on youtube, through memes on tumblr, through random posts on facebook, and through the creation and updating of wikis and their content.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Well, but on the other hand those ways don't always give as much opportunity for true discussion, which is what a lot of people - myself included - miss. Tumblr is great for sharing stuff, for instance, but there's little discussion that comes of it. At the same time, I haven't seen a lot of discussion on LJ either - just, as you said, collaboration. Which has to have a place, that's the whole point of fanart and fanfiction, but at the same time there's no way to discuss writing Amy Pond in a fanfic or what Jayne Cobb's true motivations were. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, you know?

[jo-blogs.livejournal.com]

I really agree with this. I do think SQ and the robust friendship groups it generated on LJ and offline was a pretty special case - not to say that people didn't make friends on other sites/in other fandoms - but SQ was a really amazing one for that. I think it's because a) there was a real insistence on being polite and positive in discussion (although that kind of fell away a bit at the end and people's individual agendas took over - a pretty common problem for "mature" online communities).

b) a lot of people on SQ who were writers saw themselves as being "serious" about their fan fiction and the SQ approach to discussion meant that they got a HUGE amount of really vital and interesting feedback from other writers and readers.

Added to that is your excellent point about the kinds of things people were interested in discussing - not only the writing threads but so much of the canon discussion on SQ about the books fed into people's fan fiction, and people just kept having amazing ideas for stories and writing them down. Again, there's a lot of amazing fan fiction still being written but the archives tend to be more multi-fandom perhaps? So to me there doesn't seem to be that same coherence that keeps people together, working on stuff and feeding off each other.

I recently wrote a fic for a show there's very little fic for - it's a teen show, and I think the fans are just a lot more active on tumblr (and maybe twitter). There isn't a single LJ community, for one thing. Loads of people have read it, according to the stats, but I've had hardly any reviews - which is fine, I wrote it for myself and am not as hungry for feedback as I was a few years ago. But it shows that the culture for discussion and giving feedback just isn't there in the same way.

Can I use this post for this 500 page book about social media I have coming out soon?

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

although that kind of fell away a bit at the end and people's individual agendas took over - a pretty common problem for "mature" online communities).


Yeah, and it takes a lot to steer people back in. The thing I love about one of the communities I still go to is that the same sort of thing happened, but we worked to reign people back in. However, it takes a lot of investment and the right people to do that, and sometimes that doesn't happen - especially if the admins or mods have moved on, which is often the case. A lot of the mods/admins at the community I mentioned are middle aged or older - this IS their thing now. It can be a different story when the admins/mods were in their teens or twenties when they started and have different lives towards the end. Not to mention that this board is a little less dependent on the "fan" in "fandom" than SQ was. There's a LOT of meta - in fact, really it's 80% meta. But the spirit of the fandom is still there, if that makes sense?


Can I use this post for this 500 page book about social media I have coming out soon?

Suddenly I feel bad about that comment - but you know you're not who I meant, right? :) I meant people who dissect internet culture they really know nothing about like we're weird alien specimen, complete with inaccurate facts and/or the most outlandish examples. Anyway, because I know yours won't be like that, I'd be more than happy to let you use it! :)

[jo-blogs.livejournal.com]

Don't feel bad! I didn't mean to make you feel bad, I was being silly and I did know what you meant. My research isn't about social media anyway, it's about creative writing.

Your other community sounds great - I'm quite envious! That's awesome you've been able to hold it together and keep things going.

Not to mention that this board is a little less dependent on the "fan" in "fandom" than SQ was.

Yeah, it made sense for SQ to close when it did, but I still find it sad. The fandom stuff was great and fun while it lasted, but there was so much more to the site that could have gone on if there'd been a way to continue it - discussion of other books and all the writing stuff.

[bemkah.livejournal.com]

I think those things DO still exist, they're just in a different format. Someone might make a video posted on YouTube entitled 'Jayne Cobb's Motivation' and use a series of clips from Firefly to prove their point, or create an animation or picspam. Someone else might write a wiki article on Amy Pond and her appearance in fanfic, her pairings, which stories and authors are most popular etc. You do still get comments to all of these things as well, which the original poster can respond to. I do get the sadness behind the slow death of forums though. One of my favourite sites is a Sirius Black forum site and it has been slowly dwindling since the release of the final HP movie.

[chocolatepot.livejournal.com]

People say that Tumblr limits discussion, but I do see that kind of thing there. Not a ton, because I don't follow talky people on it and you have to look for it/stimulate it, but you can find it. OUAT gets quite a lot.

Which is I think more to the point - HP encouraged a ton of spec and theorizing and universe-meta, but most canons just don't. Doctor Who does, but imo the intense ALL ABOUT -ISM the more social media-meta side of the fandom has going on is off-putting to people who want to delve into character arcs and motivations (since "no, you're wrong, it just happened because the writer sucks" is always a potential answer).