Something I consider incredibly rude which wasn't mentioned is discussing a scene with a writing partner and agreeing on how it's going to go, and then doing something completely different within the scene itself. And then compounding the rudeness is refusing to back up and redo it, especially with an assertion that "the character can't forget what happened" and therefore it has to stand, no matter how badly they messed over said writing partner. That's a lame excuse IMO and just compounds rudeness with insult.
Also rude is making an appointment for live scening and then flaking on it without a very good excuse. I mean, OK, real life happens and if someone's kid starts choking or something then that's an excellent reason for blowing off an appointment and I'll be sympathetic later when they get around to telling me about it. But I don't hang out in chat every night -- I'm only there when I have an appointment with someone, and when I'm there I'm either scening or chatting or just hanging out waiting for someone to show up. The third option is incredibly boring and a waste of my time and it annoys me when it's not for a VERY good reason. If someone never shows, or shows up an hour late, and just sort of shrugs and doesn't have a good reason and can't be bothered to apologize, that person goes on my "Don't Scene With" list.
Related to the above, someone who's in the middle of a live chat and just wanders off without letting their scening partner(s) know ahead of time. "My five-year-old started shrieking," is a good reason to lunge up from the computer and run. "I had to change my baby," or "The phone rang" are not, because neither of these is so dire or immediate that one can't type at least a "BRB--baby" or "BRB--phone" before leaving. Going suddenly silent for forty minutes or more and then coming back in and saying, "Oh, someone knocked at the door and we had to talk about X" just isn't acceptable IMO. Maybe it's because I'm a crotchety old broad, but that's how I feel.
And there are a number of other RPS games I know of, and probably a bunch I don't know of. It definitely deserved a place on your list; hopefully most people who play RPS games will write in rather than wander away.
Ah... well, see, I don't think I've ever even heard of RPS, unfortunately. I did do a little research on big RPG fandoms, but clearly not enough. So what is RPS?
I have no idea what you meant by this -- Do you ever, or have you ever, use(d) fanfiction characters in a roleplay?
*Headdesk* I have no idea why I didn't put "original fanfiction characters", but that's what I meant. As you said, all the characters are going to be fanfiction characters.
I definitely don't think that original characters are interently bad, unless the game rules say they are.
Not to choose sides, but I agree with that point, although I can see others. And I've had friends who write nothing but OCs complain about bad OCs in RPGs. I feel it's really not about the character's status - canon, one time mention in canon, OC - but the situation.
I don't see the problem with OCs having a large role in the plot, but I can see it turning into a problem if not written well. That hasn't happened to me, but like I said, I've had friends who have complained about OCs completely taking over.
About plot domination, I've never played in a game where there was one Grand Glorious Main Plot(tm) that governed the whole game. And from what I've heard about what such games are like to play in if you're not lucky enough to have gotten in early and nabbed one of the Main Characters, I don't particularly want to try one.
I think some groups truly want to be inclusive, but plotwise it doesn't work. And I think there's also the matter of character interest, which isn't necessarily their fault - if you want to be Hagrid in a group where the rest of the members think he's the Potterverse Jar Jar Binks, it's going to be hard. That said, I think a good group mod finds a way to work with it.
...at that point it becomes a public service to warn newbies about her.
"Badmouthing" is a tricky one, isn't it? I agree, that sometimes it's good to bring up the problem. I do feel it's usually best to do so with mods... however, sometimes people don't make it possible. I think if someone's upsetting others so much they need to vent, then... well, what are you going to do, tell them to shut up while they're in tears?
Also rude is making an appointment for live scening and then flaking on it without a very good reason.
Hm, I generally agree, and I always try and make appointments. But if a real life friend wants to get together, and we haven't in ages and it's the only night possible, I'm not going to say, "sorry, I can't, I have to roleplay." Plus, it's also your home situation, and sometimes, you don't need a five year old kid. I still live with my parents, and one time in the middle of a roleplay, my Mom walked in and decided we were going somewhere in ten minutes. I had two options: say no and offend her, or tell my friend I'd have to RP that night.
These things are technically rude, especially when something hasn't come up and the person just got bored, but sometimes there's no real choice. Same with disappearing suddenly - I've typed "BRB" before when people are waiting, and they've seen me and gotten upset.
Sorry, assumptions. :P RPS is Real Person Slash, where you're writing about the actors rather than the characters they play. Or some people write about musicians or sports figures or whomever.
I have no idea why I didn't put "original fanfiction characters", but that's what I meant.
Ahh, OK. No, I've never taken a character I wrote first in a solo story and brought him or her into an RPG. If I thought the character would fit into the RPG storyline I was writing then I'd probably do so, rather than making up a new OC just to be new, but it's never come up.
And I've had friends who write nothing but OCs complain about bad OCs in RPGs. I feel it's really not about the character's status - canon, one time mention in canon, OC - but the situation.
But that's the point, I think, that it doesn't matter if the character is major or minor or a one-shot or not in canon at all. What's important is how the writer writes him or her, and a bad writer is going to be a problem no matter what. A really good writer can create a well-developed OC and fit it smoothly into the story, whereas a bad writer can take a character for which there are six books or six TV seasons' worth of canon to refer to and completely mess up anyway. IMO when there's a problem in an RPG the fault is with the writer, not the character.
I think some groups truly want to be inclusive, but plotwise it doesn't work. And I think there's also the matter of character interest, which isn't necessarily their fault - if you want to be Hagrid in a group where the rest of the members think he's the Potterverse Jar Jar Binks, it's going to be hard. That said, I think a good group mod finds a way to work with it.
It sounds like we're talking two different things, here. If the problem is that the main plotline of the game simply doesn't have room for this or that character -- and really, you can only have so many major characters in a single storyline -- then that's a different problem from Jane wanting to play Hagrid and the mod being good with that but all the other players not wanting to write their characters interacting with Hagrid.
I do feel it's usually best to do so with mods... however, sometimes people don't make it possible.
If the mods know and the person causing so much havoc is still around, then yes, it becomes problematic. When someone has so thoroughly messed over a number of people, individuals who don't know each other, over a period of time and the mods haven't done anything, then it gets to the point where you just have to post some warning signs. It sucks pretty thoroughly, though, and I'll only do it if watching some clueless new player wander into the tiger trap sucks a lot more. :/ Ideally the mods would handle it but it's not an ideal world, unfortunately.
I still live with my parents, and one time in the middle of a roleplay, my Mom walked in and decided we were going somewhere in ten minutes. I had two options: say no and offend her, or tell my friend I'd have to RP that night.
See now, to me, that's covered in the "real life good excuses" section I mentioned above. If you're living under a parent's roof and have to keep them happy then a parental demand is IMO a good reason for leaving in the middle of an RP session. But you told your friend you were going and why, right? That's what makes all the difference.
I've RPed with people who did not tell me they were leaving the computer before they did it, who just took off and left me and our other writing partner hanging for forty minutes or an hour, wondering if she was typing, if she'd seen the last paragraph and knew it was her turn. Eventually, when she hasn't responded to several inquiries in the chat window, it became clear she was actually gone for whatever reason and we started worrying that something dire had happened, her baby'd gotten hurt or the stove had exploded or whatever. Then to have her wander back in all that time later and say, "Oh, the phone rang," or something, that's just incredibly rude.
Or people being half an hour or an hour or two hours late for a scening appointment and just drifting in with no excuse and no apology, when I've been sitting there waiting all that time -- rude. Real life happens to everyone -- I've had to leave or miss an appointment and I've always explained (ahead of time) and apologized. And a couple of times I've just forgotten or whatever and flaked and believe me, next time I saw the person I'd been supposed to meet with I gave an explanation and the apology was seriously grovelling because I'd blown it badly and knew it.
It's a matter of respect, though. If I'm taking time I could be using to do something else and spending it to roleplay with JaneFan, but she thinks it's OK to leave me waiting for no reason at all, or she thinks it's OK to get up in the middle and wander off without a word to get the phone or diaper the baby or have an hour's worth of conversation with someone who knocked on her door for a visit, without even saying "Hey, sorry, gotta go, back in an hour," that tells me I come pretty darned low on her Respect list. She thinks it's OK to leave me waiting for her all that time with no prior warning, that I don't even deserve a "BRB."
These things are technically rude, especially when something hasn't come up and the person just got bored, but sometimes there's no real choice.
Now, to me, that center bit doesn't belong in there. If someone's wandered off just because they got bored, then that's a lot more than "technically" rude and there definitely was a choice. Take that part out and I agree with the rest of it -- that leaving a scene in the middle is technically rude but sometimes you have no choice, and if you explain and apologize before you leave then I have no problem with it and won't think you were rude.
Same with disappearing suddenly - I've typed "BRB" before when people are waiting, and they've seen me and gotten upset.
With me, that'd depend. If we're due to start in two minutes and you typed "BRB" to let me know you're online and then came back five minutes later, that's cool. Technically it's a bit late but if you ran to grab a cup of coffee or whatever first then that's fine. Or if you typed "BRB" in the middle of a scene because you needed a couple of minutes to dash to the bathroom, then fine. If someone's going to be gone more than a few minutes, though, then some sort of indicator is nice; if we're going to be taking a break I'd like to know if I have time to get a drink, time to hit the bathroom, time to make myself some dinner, time to go watch some TV with my husband.... [wry smile] Your break is also my break and I want to know how much time I have so I know what I can do with it. If someone typed "BRB" with nothing else, I'd assume they were only going to be gone for a few minutes and I wouldn't get upset until a significantly longer time had passed.
A true emergency overrides this, of course, but true emergencies are extremely rare. More often in my experience when someone's significantly late for an appointment or vanishes without a word in the middle of one, it's just them being thoughtless, which makes it rude.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2006-10-20 01:16 am (UTC)Something I consider incredibly rude which wasn't mentioned is discussing a scene with a writing partner and agreeing on how it's going to go, and then doing something completely different within the scene itself. And then compounding the rudeness is refusing to back up and redo it, especially with an assertion that "the character can't forget what happened" and therefore it has to stand, no matter how badly they messed over said writing partner. That's a lame excuse IMO and just compounds rudeness with insult.
Also rude is making an appointment for live scening and then flaking on it without a very good excuse. I mean, OK, real life happens and if someone's kid starts choking or something then that's an excellent reason for blowing off an appointment and I'll be sympathetic later when they get around to telling me about it. But I don't hang out in chat every night -- I'm only there when I have an appointment with someone, and when I'm there I'm either scening or chatting or just hanging out waiting for someone to show up. The third option is incredibly boring and a waste of my time and it annoys me when it's not for a VERY good reason. If someone never shows, or shows up an hour late, and just sort of shrugs and doesn't have a good reason and can't be bothered to apologize, that person goes on my "Don't Scene With" list.
Related to the above, someone who's in the middle of a live chat and just wanders off without letting their scening partner(s) know ahead of time. "My five-year-old started shrieking," is a good reason to lunge up from the computer and run. "I had to change my baby," or "The phone rang" are not, because neither of these is so dire or immediate that one can't type at least a "BRB--baby" or "BRB--phone" before leaving. Going suddenly silent for forty minutes or more and then coming back in and saying, "Oh, someone knocked at the door and we had to talk about X" just isn't acceptable IMO. Maybe it's because I'm a crotchety old broad, but that's how I feel.
Angie
no subject
Date: 2006-10-20 11:27 am (UTC)Ah... well, see, I don't think I've ever even heard of RPS, unfortunately. I did do a little research on big RPG fandoms, but clearly not enough. So what is RPS?
I have no idea what you meant by this -- Do you ever, or have you ever, use(d) fanfiction characters in a roleplay?
*Headdesk* I have no idea why I didn't put "original fanfiction characters", but that's what I meant. As you said, all the characters are going to be fanfiction characters.
I definitely don't think that original characters are interently bad, unless the game rules say they are.
Not to choose sides, but I agree with that point, although I can see others. And I've had friends who write nothing but OCs complain about bad OCs in RPGs. I feel it's really not about the character's status - canon, one time mention in canon, OC - but the situation.
I don't see the problem with OCs having a large role in the plot, but I can see it turning into a problem if not written well. That hasn't happened to me, but like I said, I've had friends who have complained about OCs completely taking over.
About plot domination, I've never played in a game where there was one Grand Glorious Main Plot(tm) that governed the whole game. And from what I've heard about what such games are like to play in if you're not lucky enough to have gotten in early and nabbed one of the Main Characters, I don't particularly want to try one.
I think some groups truly want to be inclusive, but plotwise it doesn't work. And I think there's also the matter of character interest, which isn't necessarily their fault - if you want to be Hagrid in a group where the rest of the members think he's the Potterverse Jar Jar Binks, it's going to be hard. That said, I think a good group mod finds a way to work with it.
...at that point it becomes a public service to warn newbies about her.
"Badmouthing" is a tricky one, isn't it? I agree, that sometimes it's good to bring up the problem. I do feel it's usually best to do so with mods... however, sometimes people don't make it possible. I think if someone's upsetting others so much they need to vent, then... well, what are you going to do, tell them to shut up while they're in tears?
Also rude is making an appointment for live scening and then flaking on it without a very good reason.
Hm, I generally agree, and I always try and make appointments. But if a real life friend wants to get together, and we haven't in ages and it's the only night possible, I'm not going to say, "sorry, I can't, I have to roleplay." Plus, it's also your home situation, and sometimes, you don't need a five year old kid. I still live with my parents, and one time in the middle of a roleplay, my Mom walked in and decided we were going somewhere in ten minutes. I had two options: say no and offend her, or tell my friend I'd have to RP that night.
These things are technically rude, especially when something hasn't come up and the person just got bored, but sometimes there's no real choice. Same with disappearing suddenly - I've typed "BRB" before when people are waiting, and they've seen me and gotten upset.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-20 09:07 pm (UTC)Sorry, assumptions. :P RPS is Real Person Slash, where you're writing about the actors rather than the characters they play. Or some people write about musicians or sports figures or whomever.
I have no idea why I didn't put "original fanfiction characters", but that's what I meant.
Ahh, OK. No, I've never taken a character I wrote first in a solo story and brought him or her into an RPG. If I thought the character would fit into the RPG storyline I was writing then I'd probably do so, rather than making up a new OC just to be new, but it's never come up.
And I've had friends who write nothing but OCs complain about bad OCs in RPGs. I feel it's really not about the character's status - canon, one time mention in canon, OC - but the situation.
But that's the point, I think, that it doesn't matter if the character is major or minor or a one-shot or not in canon at all. What's important is how the writer writes him or her, and a bad writer is going to be a problem no matter what. A really good writer can create a well-developed OC and fit it smoothly into the story, whereas a bad writer can take a character for which there are six books or six TV seasons' worth of canon to refer to and completely mess up anyway. IMO when there's a problem in an RPG the fault is with the writer, not the character.
I think some groups truly want to be inclusive, but plotwise it doesn't work. And I think there's also the matter of character interest, which isn't necessarily their fault - if you want to be Hagrid in a group where the rest of the members think he's the Potterverse Jar Jar Binks, it's going to be hard. That said, I think a good group mod finds a way to work with it.
It sounds like we're talking two different things, here. If the problem is that the main plotline of the game simply doesn't have room for this or that character -- and really, you can only have so many major characters in a single storyline -- then that's a different problem from Jane wanting to play Hagrid and the mod being good with that but all the other players not wanting to write their characters interacting with Hagrid.
I do feel it's usually best to do so with mods... however, sometimes people don't make it possible.
If the mods know and the person causing so much havoc is still around, then yes, it becomes problematic. When someone has so thoroughly messed over a number of people, individuals who don't know each other, over a period of time and the mods haven't done anything, then it gets to the point where you just have to post some warning signs. It sucks pretty thoroughly, though, and I'll only do it if watching some clueless new player wander into the tiger trap sucks a lot more. :/ Ideally the mods would handle it but it's not an ideal world, unfortunately.
I still live with my parents, and one time in the middle of a roleplay, my Mom walked in and decided we were going somewhere in ten minutes. I had two options: say no and offend her, or tell my friend I'd have to RP that night.
See now, to me, that's covered in the "real life good excuses" section I mentioned above. If you're living under a parent's roof and have to keep them happy then a parental demand is IMO a good reason for leaving in the middle of an RP session. But you told your friend you were going and why, right? That's what makes all the difference.
I've RPed with people who did not tell me they were leaving the computer before they did it, who just took off and left me and our other writing partner hanging for forty minutes or an hour, wondering if she was typing, if she'd seen the last paragraph and knew it was her turn. Eventually, when she hasn't responded to several inquiries in the chat window, it became clear she was actually gone for whatever reason and we started worrying that something dire had happened, her baby'd gotten hurt or the stove had exploded or whatever. Then to have her wander back in all that time later and say, "Oh, the phone rang," or something, that's just incredibly rude.
[Continued on Next Rock...]
no subject
Date: 2006-10-20 09:09 pm (UTC)Or people being half an hour or an hour or two hours late for a scening appointment and just drifting in with no excuse and no apology, when I've been sitting there waiting all that time -- rude. Real life happens to everyone -- I've had to leave or miss an appointment and I've always explained (ahead of time) and apologized. And a couple of times I've just forgotten or whatever and flaked and believe me, next time I saw the person I'd been supposed to meet with I gave an explanation and the apology was seriously grovelling because I'd blown it badly and knew it.
It's a matter of respect, though. If I'm taking time I could be using to do something else and spending it to roleplay with JaneFan, but she thinks it's OK to leave me waiting for no reason at all, or she thinks it's OK to get up in the middle and wander off without a word to get the phone or diaper the baby or have an hour's worth of conversation with someone who knocked on her door for a visit, without even saying "Hey, sorry, gotta go, back in an hour," that tells me I come pretty darned low on her Respect list. She thinks it's OK to leave me waiting for her all that time with no prior warning, that I don't even deserve a "BRB."
These things are technically rude, especially when something hasn't come up and the person just got bored, but sometimes there's no real choice.
Now, to me, that center bit doesn't belong in there. If someone's wandered off just because they got bored, then that's a lot more than "technically" rude and there definitely was a choice. Take that part out and I agree with the rest of it -- that leaving a scene in the middle is technically rude but sometimes you have no choice, and if you explain and apologize before you leave then I have no problem with it and won't think you were rude.
Same with disappearing suddenly - I've typed "BRB" before when people are waiting, and they've seen me and gotten upset.
With me, that'd depend. If we're due to start in two minutes and you typed "BRB" to let me know you're online and then came back five minutes later, that's cool. Technically it's a bit late but if you ran to grab a cup of coffee or whatever first then that's fine. Or if you typed "BRB" in the middle of a scene because you needed a couple of minutes to dash to the bathroom, then fine. If someone's going to be gone more than a few minutes, though, then some sort of indicator is nice; if we're going to be taking a break I'd like to know if I have time to get a drink, time to hit the bathroom, time to make myself some dinner, time to go watch some TV with my husband.... [wry smile] Your break is also my break and I want to know how much time I have so I know what I can do with it. If someone typed "BRB" with nothing else, I'd assume they were only going to be gone for a few minutes and I wouldn't get upset until a significantly longer time had passed.
A true emergency overrides this, of course, but true emergencies are extremely rare. More often in my experience when someone's significantly late for an appointment or vanishes without a word in the middle of one, it's just them being thoughtless, which makes it rude.
Angie
no subject
Date: 2006-10-22 12:14 pm (UTC)