Slash: Take It or Leave It

[author_by_night]

Note to certain flister: This is not only related to my comment last night. It's more like... the comment I made made me think of an entry I've needed to make for a while now. (Of course, I probably have written about this before and forgot... forgive me if I have.)

I've noticed that a lot of times in fandom, I see the following question: "do you like slash?"



I'm all for homosexual relationships, both in fanfiction/fanart and in real life. If you tell me you ship Harry/Draco, I will admit that it's not my cup of tea; however, it's not because the thought of Harry Potter characters being gay repulses me. It's because I simply don't see Harry and Draco as ever falling in love, or having any sort of sexual relationship. I also stick to mainly canon pairings, meaning that in my mind, it's only ever going to be Ginny.

The same goes for certain popular Firefly pairings. I've noticed that a lot of Firefly fans seem to ship Simon/Mal; while this may not be typical of the fandom, that's what I've noticed. However, my brain immediately jumps to, "wait - what about Inara and Kaylee?" when I see the ship.*

Does this mean I dislike slash? No. I simply don't like a lot of slash pairings out there.

Harry Potter now has one canon slash pairing, if you consider interviews canon: Dumbledore/Grindlewald. This is a pairing I'd love to read, if I could find any fic on it. It's so... tragic love.

Finally, I want to say this: I'm not entirely sure I understand the difference between het and slash. If you asked me "do you like het?", I would've given you the same answer: there's a lot of popular pairings I don't read or understand, but I have no problem with het as a whole. In my mind, slash just happens to involve two men or two women; het happens to involve one man and one woman. Why does it matter which it is, when it comes to shipping?

I don't like a lot of pairings. Doesn't matter what gender the second person is. What matters is how much I can enjoy reading about that pairing, gay, straight, or bisexual.



* Of course, this is Whedonverse we're talking about, and from what I've seen of Whedonverse, he does like his characters to "jump ship" quite a bit, so perhaps it's not that implausible.

Comments

[penmage.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty much the same way. The "do you like slash?" question always puzzled me. What I like is good fic, with good characterization and good writing. I don't like slash pairings any more or less than I like het pairings--I like some of them and I don't like other ones, and I'm willing to read anything if it's written really well.

It's like asking "do you like things that are green?". Well, yes, I like some of them.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

It's like asking "do you like things that are green?". Well, yes, I like some of them.

You know, that's actually a perfect way of putting it.

[vaultedthewall.livejournal.com]

I've noticed that a lot of Firefly fans seem to ship Simon/Mal; while this may not be typical of the fandom, that's what I've noticed. However, my brain immediately jumps to, "wait - what about Inara and Kaylee?" when I see the ship.*

And on the other side of that pendulum swing -

"If any guy is tapping Simon's very well-shaped behind it's totally Jayne." (Kaylee can come too)

Recently on one of the art sites I'm on I posted a "How do you ship?" poll, with several answers that generally fell under Casual ("I'm not a multishipper, I do have certain ships I'd rather see, but I'm not really gung-ho about anything in particular.", "I go where the subtext takes me."), OTPs (from "if my favorite author breaks it up I MIGHT read it anyway, though" to "TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL ELSE."), Multishipper ("Sort of, I have a fandom bicycle that I ship with everyone, but if s/he's not in it I don't care." to "EVERYONE X EVERYONE!"), Conditional ("I love the dynamic of X/Y but I don't follow it in fandom because NO ONE WRITES IT THE WAY I LIKE IT.") and also AntiShipping (which had such options as "I'm in it for the story although I guess I can see where you're coming from with your fandom", "WHY IS IT ALWAYS ABOUT THE SHIPPING?!" and "DUDE DID YOU JUST SEE THAT CAR BLOW UP THAT WAS TOTALLY SWEET.")

The art site itself was geared towards slash, but it never occurred to me that gender of the character was important for the poll. Upon rereading, I never asked about it and it was only mentioned once for the phrasing of the fandom bicycle question. I think most people lean towards a specific dynamic in character relationships, or a specific way canon presents it (even if it is just "it's canon") - If you really know a person, you can usually guess what ships they'll go for in any given fandom.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Re: Antishipping - Gaaah. Thank you, that will be my second LJ rant: how liking gen does no mean you're anti-romance. ;) (Although I must admit, I have been known to cry "why is it always about the shipping?", but mostly during shipping wars.)

[akashasheiress.livejournal.com]

I also canon-ship, unless the 'verse has very few canon ships, such as classic Doctor Who, which instead had some subtext that let the viewer decide for themselves.

I like pairings that intrigue me or just feel ''right'', somehow. In such cases it doesn't matter to me if the pairing is slash or het. I tend to have a few OTPs that I'm quite loyal to, and then some ''secondary'' pairings.

[timeofnoreply.livejournal.com]

Speaking with the authority of An Actual Gay Person (TM) - because you know, we're all alike and the gays appointed me as spokeswoman ;-) - I can say for me it's not about whether the pairing is heterosexual or homosexual; it's about whether the writing is good and if the pairing is plausible. For instance, I'm not a fan of Harry/Draco myself because I just don't see it working at all no matter how well you write. Even Shakespeare couldn't make that shit believable. At the same time, I am a fan of Remus/Sirius because I can see it working, and when it's written well it's some of the best stuff out there. I'm probably a bad gay or something, though, because I never read things specifically for gay content. It's kind of insulting, that "all slash all the time, everyone at Hogwarts is gay" mentality so many straight chicks seem to have. I know cute boys kissing is a favorite fantasy of many girls - it's one of mine, and no, don't ask me how it works - but ffs. Approximately 10% of the population can be classified as homosexual. Don't stretch it.

If this made no sense I'm sorry, I haven't been sleeping well lately and my coffee hasn't kicked in.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

It's kind of insulting, that "all slash all the time, everyone at Hogwarts is gay" mentality so many straight chicks seem to have.

Yeah, I've never understood that either, and I can definitely see how it would be insulting.

[zoepaleologa.livejournal.com]

I do and I don't. I assume we're talking fanfic here.

I like slash in the sense that I find stories that feature same sex relationships interesting, if they are well written, and plausible and the same sex bit forms part of the story or even is the story (eg a coming to terms with sexuality fic sorta thing). I get bored when it's merely the be all and end all and in fact masks the fact there is no story.

And I hate M/M that feminises the characters. ie, slash where in fact it's het really, but with two blokes. Ditto two males acting nauseatingly schmoopy and almost uxorious. Euch.

Apply all the above to femmeslash, too. Though I've not read much, being as I was only in the HP fandom and the main characters who interested me most were blokes.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

And I hate M/M that feminises the characters.

I blame Hollywood. Yes, some gay guys are flamboyant - I've known flamboyant gay men IRL. But why does a homosexual couple have to have the "female-like" one? It's actually a little degrading.

[daksian.livejournal.com]

My own view is that I prefer canon-shipping, but I can handle other pairings as well...except for explicit gay male sex scenes. I'm a heterosexual male, and the imagery is simply not pleasing to my mind's eye. I certainly have no problems with interpretive gay male pairings, whether it's DD/Grindelwald, or as the poster above suggested Remus/Sirius (as with many others, one of my favourite fanfics of all time is After the End, and that has a subtle but always present R/S subtext). But two guys going at it turns me right off.

Oddly, the same isn't necessarily true for art, but I think it's because I can disassociate the act from the artistry, which is why I can handle Cork's Harry/Ron stuff. I don't enjoy the eroticism, but I can appreciate the art. Writing about gay male sex, however, forces my mind to conjure the images described (as opposed to my eyes simply viewing art), and my instinct is to look away.

Anyway, considering my views on equality, I'm the last person to be against slash as a concept, but when it comes to explicit gay male sex, I have to say 'no'.

[jncar.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I get the impression that when people ask "do you like slash" they are really asking if you enjoy reading gay porn.

And since I rarely read porn of any kind and never read gay porn, I can certainly say that if that is the question my answer is an emphatic NO.

However, if they really are asking about whether or not I would enjoy reading plausible, well-characterized, well-written romance tales and/or dramas featuring romantic subplots that include same-sex pairings, I'd say yes. If it's a good story, the type of pairing involved is of no major importance to me.

When reading romance stories I tend to seek out het because that, in general, is more interesting to me. But in dramas with lots of plot above and beyond the romance, same-sex pairings can be interesting and entertaining, if well-written.

[dinpik.livejournal.com]

I don't like slash for the same reason I don't read smut of any kind: romantic relationships don't interest me.

[dinpik.livejournal.com]

It should either be "What kind of slash DO you like?" or "Are you a homophobe when it comes to fic?" </>

I think that's a bad idea, because it leaves accusatioh of OMG HOMOPHOBE! to people who don't like slash, but have no problem with real-life gay people. The assumption in fandom is that if you like slash, you must be for gay rights, and if you don't like slash, you're a homophobe. Neither assumption is true,

[starpaint.livejournal.com]

...okay, that's weird. This post just made me realize how big a shift I've made in fandoms over the last few years. In the fandoms I still keep up with, this question doesn't really register, because the dominant pairings are slash ones. And you know, I think I kind of like that shift--I like the fact that homosexuality is there, and isn't taboo, and isn't approached as some sort of monolithic topic, and the only real questions are a) whether Author X has any skill at writing, and b) whether you find the details of Relationship Y attractive or not. And that's kinda nice, I think.

[weavingthewind.livejournal.com]

I like canon ships, such as Remus/Tonks, but I do quite like reading MWPP-era Remus/Sirius. It may not be canon, and I'd be hopeless at writing it, but I like reading it.
Interestingly, it's my only slash ship that isn't canon.