Writer's Block: Reconsidering Children's Books

[author_by_night]

[Error: unknown template qotd]Disney. The sexism - it burns.

Actually, I think "sexism" is a bit unfair, just because a, they're simplistic because they're for kids, and b, they weren't exactly written in progressive times. Still, one of the reasons I liked Enchanted was because it pretty much parodied all those themes. Not just that, but it was by Disney itself. (Granted, Disney decades later after these books and movies were written/made.) But old school Disney is just filled with anti "ugly" women themes and "ditch it all for lurve" themes.

And then there's The Baby-Sitter's Club books - not because they were sexist or anything, but the idea of a bunch of thirteen year old girls being trusted to take kids through NYC alone and stuff... *shudders*

Also, Harry Potter... though in that case, it was on purpose. But back when I first read them, I didn't think anything of a bunch of preteens fighting three headed dogs and dark lords and dealing with attempted mass murder. I mean, I always thought the books got darker in the third book, but when I think about it... yikes. O_o Obviously it was Jo Rowling's point, but I don't think I really got how chilling it was until later.

Comments

[starpaint.livejournal.com]

Hm. As far as suburban kids go, that would be horribly unlikely... but I remember some of the kids at my school getting paid to bring the kids they babysat there and back when they were about 13. Which isn't quite the same thing, but...

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Yeah, in the BSC books the kids were from another state and doing this. And I'm going to assume your school chose the kids carefully. I can just imagine the thirteen year olds I knew when I was one seeing a cute guy and telling the kids to go on their own...

[jncar.livejournal.com]

Also, Harry Potter... though in that case, it was on purpose. But back when I first read them, I didn't think anything of a bunch of preteens fighting three headed dogs and dark lords and dealing with attempted mass murder. I mean, I always thought the books got darker in the third book, but when I think about it... yikes.

I feel the same way about Narnia. I actually haven't re-read the books as an adult, but I took my kids to see the movies and seeing those young kids stabbing ravenous yet sentient creatures with swords, and then getting stabbed themselves was somewhat traumatic for me--more so than for my kids, actually.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

more so than for my kids, actually.

I think the thing with kids is that they don't understand why it's disturbing.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

I loved the Narnia books as a kid, but re-reading them as an adult was not a good thing to do. Not least because I caught all thr religious stuff this time...No surprise I didn't as a first-time reader, though. The Jesus we were taught about in school didn't qualify as a lion, exactly.

[febrile-lune.livejournal.com]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgxVvbai_nI&feature=related

This is called Mickey Mouse Monopoly and I think you would be interested. It addresses sexism and racism in Disney. I don't think it's unfair, it's very blatant in a culture that is far too accepting of this sort of thing.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Hey, thanks for the link, I'll take a look. :)

[sea_thoughts]

I was already 17 when I started reading HP, so I definitely got a lot of the darkness. That was why I was happy when OotP came out, because it felt like JKR finally took the gloves off and said, "Okay, let's do this." *lol*

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

True, but unfortunately the whole series are labelled as kids books.

[sea_thoughts]

Yes, but you and I both know that people who call them that are people who've never read them. ;)

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Or who at least read them in a bit of a simplistic fashion.

[moonreviews]

They're all in the 11+ bookcase in the bookshop here. There are just too many books in the 13+ bookcase (just moved His Dark Materials from the 13+ to the 11+ bookcase as well, but I think those are less dark than HP).

I think especially the first three books are fun to read for children :) Book 5/6/7 not so much for younger children.

[vytresna.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Those ten-year-olds at the DH release party? Oh, man.

[sixth-light.livejournal.com]

The thing I find creepiest about Disney's sexism is that they've often taken the original tale and made it *worse* - e.g., in the original Little Mermaid story she's trying to get a soul, not a man; in the original Beauty and the Beast, the Beast is kind and gentlemanly and Belle has to overcome her initial aversion to realise this, and that's why she loves him, rather than the Disney-fied "if you love a jerk, he'll change" version. And Beauty and the Beast is one of the *better* Disney stories, sexism-wise.

I also find the whole Aladdin thing really interesting because I wouldn't have thought twice about it until I started living with a girl from India, who is willing to explain in precise detail how and why it's racist as hell; she was in elementary school in America when it came out, so she had to deal with a lot of "do you wear clothes like that at home?" stuff. The worst thing about that one, I think, is how they made Aladdin look like Tom Cruise because making him look Indian or Arabic wouldn't make him attractive enough to be a Disney lead. Gah.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I'd never even thought of Aladdin as being racist, but the documentary also shows the song... and, well, wow.

Re: Beauty and the Beast, I didn't realize it was like that until the documentary showed the clip. I guess I just thought it was a general movie about a guy who only LOOKED like a beast. (Though you say the original was like that?)

[sixth-light.livejournal.com]

The original was exactly like that; the Beast had originally been cruel and mean but handsome, and had been turned into a beast to reflect his inner nature, but over time had learned to be nice - but to break the curse he had to make someone fall in love with him for his now-changed personality, despite his looks. Whereas Disney has the Beast being *still* cruel and mean, and Belle changing him, thus following the bad-boys-will-change-if-you-wait-for-them story. Eugh.

[vegablack62.livejournal.com]

I agree that the creepiest thing about Disney movies is that they make the story more sexist not less, sometimes they make the story worse in their attempts to make it more enlightened. It's weird. Their addiction to weak plot cliches is what does it.

"Harry Potter... though in that case, it was on purpose. But back when I first read them, I didn't think anything of a bunch of preteens fighting three headed dogs and dark lords and dealing with attempted mass murder. I mean, I always thought the books got darker in the third book, but when I think about it... yikes. O_o Obviously it was Jo Rowling's point, but I don't think I really got how chilling it was until later."

I read Potter for the first time as a grown woman with children the ages of the characters. (My youngest so graduated high school the year DH came out.)

I used words like sinister to discribe Dumbledore because that is the way he is to a parent. I finished the first books wondering what kind of strange headmaster allows a preteen to have invisibity cloaks or wander the school in search of adventure, or punishes kids by having them roam at night in forests filled with dangerous creatures. I felt JKR hinted that Dumbledore knew about Harry's adventures. I was confused by his portrayal and wondered if it was a hole in the characterization. In the end we found out that he did plot it and saw endangering a 11-12 year old
as part of his plan to prepare him to die fighting Voldemort. That's just cold, however charming the man was.

Children's literature is filled with disturbing stories that touch on cruelty, violence, failure, callousness and the inhumanity of humans. IN some ways they are more frank about it than adult lit. That's why kids like them. I'd say more books deal with it than those that don't. My feelings about Dumbledore didn't make the books bad kids Lit. I think the first three Harry Potters were great examples of kid lit. The first book was a perfect example; the ending was perfectly satisfying from the perspective of a child. Harry's winning the class cup for Gryffindor from Slytherin would have pleased a ten year old more than finding the Philosopher's stone. I just don't see Dumbledore as such a wonderful character. One of the things kids learn from books is that things and people aren't always what they seem.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Harry's winning the class cup for Gryffindor from Slytherin would have pleased a ten year old more than finding the Philosopher's stone.

And to a kid, the mean, bad bullies didn't win after all. Whereas I don't know about you, but I find taking away a prize from a bunch of kids like that rather harsh. Yet maybe it's good for young kids to be exposed to the idea that if you're a good person, you'll be rewarded, NOT if you're mean and stuck up to people who aren't "cool." Even Neville got an award. The scene still bugs me, but at least I can sort of see the rationale.

[vegablack62.livejournal.com]

A kid would think of it this way. Slytherin was winning because The trio and Neville lost all those points when they got caught roaming the halls at night attempting to do something good. They lost more points than Draco who was being mean. That would all seem very unfair. Nothing bothers a kid more than to be punished unfairly for something that they hadn't meant to be bad. That injustice bothers them more than anything. The time you were accused of stealing but you just forgot, or the time you were accused of lying etc.

The Slytherins in book one are every kids image of horrible kids who pick on them and laugh at them and win unfairly. Preteens relate to Gryffindor. Gryffindor fits the preteen ethic.

Then they think Harry earned the points fairly from Slytherin. He should be rewarded for finding the stone and saving it from evil. Ron and Hermione should be rewarded for helping him. The reward of receiving House cup points would be more important to them than praise or a medal or money. That's the reward a ten year old would want. That Neville got the final wining points would seem just to a kid. He had done something that is extremely hard for a ten year old to do. Many of them would have been mad at him for doing it. Seeing that rewarded would be a good thing. Plus the Slytherins were mean to him all year a kid would have been glad he got his own back.

[eimajunknown.livejournal.com]

funny you mentioned disney. i was just watching 'beauty and the beast' a few weeks ago and was disturbed by some of the lyrics the townspeople, lead by gaston, are singing when they're storming the beast's castle. particularly: "We don't like / What we don't understand / In fact it scares us." i was like....way to be narrow-minded, you know?

also, i was a big bsc fan when i was younger. i liked those and sweet valley. i can't bring myself to read them now, though, lol. but it was fun at the time.

[sixth-light.livejournal.com]

Although I think those lyrics are meant to be ironic - like, the townsfolk are being led by their ignorance into doing what Gaston wants, which is a Bad Thing? It's not meant to *endorse* being narrow-minded, I don't think (and the movie's theme of "reading is awesome, kids" does tie in there.)

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

[eimajunknown.livejournal.com]

yeah, i got that part. i mean, it wasn't like they had a main character saying stuff like that. but i remember that was always one of the songs that i never really sang along with when i was younger, in part because i never knew the words, and when i actually sat down to listen to them with subtitles, i was surprised. i still love the movie, though =]

[r-a-black.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking the same on the Disney stuff, because it's been brought a few times when I argue against Twilight. Coincidentally I was having a discussion over the sexism in the movies with classmates the other day, which was pretty much made up of us comparing and contrasting the tougher females to the whiny, helpless ones (I've always hated Snow White, and I always will.)

I'm the same as you with Harry Potter, though it didn't hit me until they put the question to Rowling. They mentioned that it was getting darker as he got older, and she said something along the lines of, "I thought the idea of a face growing out of the back of a man's head was pretty dark". I pretty much had a big "oh duh!" moment there and then.

You know, I think it's cool that you do the Writer's Block bits- I almost want to try some myself.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

(I've always hated Snow White, and I always will.)

Absolutely.

I'm the same as you with Harry Potter, though it didn't hit me until they put the question to Rowling. They mentioned that it was getting darker as he got older, and she said something along the lines of, "I thought the idea of a face growing out of the back of a man's head was pretty dark". I pretty much had a big "oh duh!" moment there and then.

Me too, actually! I had similar thoughts.

You know, I think it's cool that you do the Writer's Block bits- I almost want to try some myself.

Thanks - it gives me a chance to LJ about something non-fandom specific that's not, say, real life cheese and whine.

[vytresna.livejournal.com]

You know, it was pretty much the reverse for me with The Giving Tree. I was a literal-minded child.