Why so little genfic?
Jun. 21st, 2007 07:27 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Disclaimer: Entry inspired by a secret on the
fandomsecrets community.
Something I've noticed in almost all of the fandoms I'm in or know of - Heroes, Harry Potter, Wicked the book, Wicked the musical, Rent, Pirates of the Carribean, Supernatural - is that there's a huge emphasis on romance. Actually, often smutty romance, at that. Meanwhile, in all of those fandoms, save Pirates of the Carribean, the themes of friendship and/or family seem just as important, but they are not given the same amount of screentime. Well, I don't really know if that's the case with Supernatural, but gazing through the comms, it certainly seems to be the case. Also admittedly, Rent is clearly about romantic love, but there's still themes of friendship there too. (Mimi and Angel, Joanne and Mark - a friendship that probably wouldn't normally happen, all things considered - and Mark and Roger.)
I don't have a problem with people's shipping preferences - to each his/her own, right? If you want to write Petrellicest or Wincest, more power to you. Same with if you want to ship Remus/Sirius ( a ship I can see on some level anyway), Harry/Hermione, or Will/Jack.
But I have a general question - why is it that in these fandoms, non-romantic relationships, canon or not, do not generally get equal writing time? Even I have to admit that my entrance into the HP fandom came with musings about whether or not it'd be Harry/Hermione or Hermione/Ron, if Remus/Sirius was plausible, etc. I only became a genfic person later on. And even then, I still shipped Remus/Tonks (which wasn't canon at the time) and Ron/Hermione.
So what is it about romance and smutfics that gains so much more popularity, and why do people see the need to put canon friends and siblings in romantic and/or smutty situations?
Discuss. :)
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
Something I've noticed in almost all of the fandoms I'm in or know of - Heroes, Harry Potter, Wicked the book, Wicked the musical, Rent, Pirates of the Carribean, Supernatural - is that there's a huge emphasis on romance. Actually, often smutty romance, at that. Meanwhile, in all of those fandoms, save Pirates of the Carribean, the themes of friendship and/or family seem just as important, but they are not given the same amount of screentime. Well, I don't really know if that's the case with Supernatural, but gazing through the comms, it certainly seems to be the case. Also admittedly, Rent is clearly about romantic love, but there's still themes of friendship there too. (Mimi and Angel, Joanne and Mark - a friendship that probably wouldn't normally happen, all things considered - and Mark and Roger.)
I don't have a problem with people's shipping preferences - to each his/her own, right? If you want to write Petrellicest or Wincest, more power to you. Same with if you want to ship Remus/Sirius ( a ship I can see on some level anyway), Harry/Hermione, or Will/Jack.
But I have a general question - why is it that in these fandoms, non-romantic relationships, canon or not, do not generally get equal writing time? Even I have to admit that my entrance into the HP fandom came with musings about whether or not it'd be Harry/Hermione or Hermione/Ron, if Remus/Sirius was plausible, etc. I only became a genfic person later on. And even then, I still shipped Remus/Tonks (which wasn't canon at the time) and Ron/Hermione.
So what is it about romance and smutfics that gains so much more popularity, and why do people see the need to put canon friends and siblings in romantic and/or smutty situations?
Discuss. :)
no subject
Date: 2007-06-21 12:03 pm (UTC)I've wondered if it's because people see romantic or sexual relationships as the only ones that can be interesting, or deep, and therefore worthy of exploration in fic - or that there's simply more interest in deconstructing a romantic relationship than a friendship one.
I think some people, too, have difficulty with the idea of a deep and far reaching bond that isn't based on romantic love. In a lot of ways, it's easier to express that two characters have feelings for each other by letting them kiss than by demonstrating in other, non romantic, ways that deep feelings exist.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-21 04:45 pm (UTC)deep bonds without being shippy. And
yes, it is harder to write about two
people being close without making it
seem shippy; heck, sometimes that's a
problem IRL.
But I don't think that's true of all
smut writers - I know many who still
value friendship. And I do want to
clarify that I don't think smut is
bad, I just wonder why there's not
more focus on platonic relationships.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-21 12:15 pm (UTC)1. Part of it is just where you are in fandom. Some places over represent in relationship fic and smut. If you're in one spot, it will look like way lots of that. If you're in another, you might see almost none.
2. Male to female composition may play a role in terms of stereotypical modes of telling a story based on gender. Over represented by women and you'll see more of the content you mention. Women tend to write more character driven fic which lends itself less to genfic in terms of how fandom does it.
3. Perception that the audience for this type of material is large, audience for the other is large. People write it because they want feedback or just to increase the size of their potential audience.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-21 12:30 pm (UTC)And honestly, if we weren't writing to get read, we wouldn't publish on archives or LJ.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-21 04:51 pm (UTC)is sad but true. It's easy to say "post anyway', but in practice?
Yeah, easier said than done.
Of course, I still try and "post
anyway", including my gen, but often
stuff just goes to the inboxes of friends, or is flocked on my LJ at
least. Not all of that is doubt that
anyone'll read - but I think some of
it is. (Though I also think
if I got around to sending that stuff to my wonderful beta readers who
seem to know my writing style better
than I do...)
no subject
Date: 2007-06-25 07:43 pm (UTC)Lisa
x
no subject
Date: 2007-06-21 01:58 pm (UTC)As to why smutfic is so popularly written, which I think is your main quandary--as opposed to whether or not smutfic is more popularly reviewed--I suspect it has something to do with the recreational nature of the fanfic endeavor. People who are writing and reading fanfiction are not doing it for profit, and in fact, they're afraid of being sued if they tried. This puts a heavy limit on the potential readership, but it simultaneously removes the necessity of creating a 'mainstream' work of fiction. One might just as well ask why fanfiction lends itself so much to vignettes as opposed to novel-length fics; it's because production of the work is meant as much to please the author as to please the audience--if not more. Fanfic writers, not bound down by what sort of story 'sells,' are free to write out-and-out kinky smut in a way that they never could were they writing for the mainstream media; they are free to write a drabble, if a drabble's all they feel like writing. I suspect that we see so very much smut here because people who write fanfiction for recreational purposes simply enjoy writing it, or enjoy the idea of writing it, and have no real reason not to. Likewise, people who enjoy reading smutfic do so not because they actively prefer it to gen (we've noted above that this isn't necessarily the case), but because they are likewise experiencing liberation from the gen of the mainstream media. They can't get this kind of eloquent, character-driven smut anywhere else, and so they're pleased to find it here.
Put shortly, therefore, fanfiction allows people to both produce and consume unconventional works suited to non-mainstream tastes. Smutfics are less like mainstream than other fics, catering to the desires of readers and writers alike, and so they're fanfic's 'special province,' in a way.
And proportionately, people probably have dirtier minds than you do, miss. I'm sorry; that's just how it is. =(
no subject
Date: 2007-06-21 05:03 pm (UTC)But - and I hope you don't mind me
saying this - you wrote them a very
long time ago, and since then, I think fandom has changed in that respect. Of course, that could just be me. I didn't even know what LJ was back then, and I really only left ff.n for
betterother sites when it turned into something the cat brought in and all the authors I read fled for their lives, if they alreadyhadn't. ;) But my point is, I think fandom is a lot more focused on romance and smut than it was in, say, 2002.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-21 05:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-06-21 07:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 07:53 pm (UTC)I've been in fandom since the early 80s, and trust me, smut has always been with us. It's just that in the Olden Days, it was sold in adult-only fanzines that you had to know the secret password to get hold of. And that's just the het smut; to find the slash or the kinky stuff you had to really prove you were trustworthy to be admitted into the inner circle.
And it does vary from fandom to fandom. ElfQuest fandom, where I hung out for a long time, was very gen-oriented. But even there, the most common type of story for first-time writers to attempt was the Recognition story (basically this telepathic mate-or-die thing.)
I don't think a good romance or smutfic is easier to write than a good genfic, but they're certainly easier to plot. And plot is something that a lot of fan writers are afraid of tackling, or don't quite know how to handle. With romance, it's all laid out for you: A meets B, A loses B, A gets B back, fade to black (or to smut.) Which is also a large part of the reason why romance is so popular, in mainstream publishing as well as fanfic: it's a comfort read.
That said, I've also found that well-done gen, or romances with strong gen subplots, or gen with strong romance subplots, are very popular with readers. I get as much feedback (sometimes more) for my adventure or comedy fics as I do for my romances.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 12:46 am (UTC)And as someone else stated, we enjoy what is different than our RLs. I enjoy genfic, but I'm living a genfic, so there's only so much I care to read. On the other hand, I'm part of this tiny population of people saving themselves for marriage, so I enjoy smutfic because it's not gonna happen in RL for another three to eight years (I hope I get married by then...)
no subject
Date: 2007-06-21 03:49 pm (UTC)Of course, the other problem, I think, is that it's just much easier for write ships. Not easier to write them well, but just write them in general. It's so easy for fill up the pages with kissing and sex; inexperienced/untalented authors can avoid the emotions. But it's much harder to avoid emotions with friendship fics because there isn't that physical aspect to fill up the space with.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-21 05:52 pm (UTC)Another reason for more shippy/smutty stuff than gen being written could be because, at least for HP (and I can't speak for any other fandoms, because I'm only involved in HP), the source material is pretty much gen. There's a little shippyness, true, but it's not the main--or most important--part of the story. I tend to write shippy (although I'm writing a gen Neville fic right now, too), because there *isn't* all that much shippy stuff in the books, but there are tons and tons of Ron/Hermione/Harry friendship moments. So I write to fill in the blanks (for me).
Does that make sense?
no subject
Date: 2007-06-21 07:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-06-21 11:29 pm (UTC)I have since lightened the frick up. Shipping still gets on my nerves sometimes, but I don't see why the HP fandom should be any different from any other popular fandom, most of which are built on solid ship platforms. But I think HP in particular, because it is a female-dominated fandom, is concerned with romantic entanglements because, for many of us, that's what sparks our imaginations. I can't think of any soap opera that was created with a male audience in mind. Even primetime TV shows like Lost and House break out the shippiness on a regular basis.
On the one hand, it's a shame that so many people seem to be unable or unwilling to examine close relationships and special bonds without romance being imposed upon them somehow. I still get frustrated from time to time with the immediate leap from "love" to "romantic love," as if it's the same gawddamn thing. But I can't deny that I'm attracted more to smutty fics than I am to gen...and I put the blame for that squarely on my dirty, dirty mind. ;)
no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 01:47 am (UTC)People use sex as a metaphor for emotional intimacy. It's simple, and it generally gets the message across. But the result is that all friendships end up sexualized (not that I have a problem with that, of course!).
no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 07:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 08:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-06-23 05:45 pm (UTC)This is where my opinion sits, pretty much. But I also think the metaphor isn't just emotional intimacy, but also vulnerability, which is really really interesting and fun to poke at. Sexualized relationships can be the same as their platonic canon counterparts, they're just allegorized. And now I've called NC-17 fic allegory, which has more or less made my morning.
Adding sex makes the reader's emotional connection to the relationship easier to come by, perhaps. But then, as has been amply covered, it's also (probably "mostly") about hot people, and about getting them to be hot together. There are lots of discussions I've read with phrases like "reverse objectification," a feminist movement in which women are claiming porn for themselves, and etc., but it boils down to "we write/read because we think it's hot. And yay for porn."
:)
no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 02:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 03:11 am (UTC)1) Fandom is mostly chicks, and chicks dig love stories.
2) Fanfic tends to explore issues not explored in canon, and romance is often sidelined in the texts we are fannish for.
3) Fanfic tends to explore issues in different ways than canon does, and a lot of the texts we are fannish for have lame canon romances.
Maybe we're filling gaps, maybe we're revising inadequate storylines, and maybe we're playing with love, emotions, and sex like little ladies should. Dunno.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 07:42 pm (UTC)2) Canon doesn't have as much sex as humans want. Or even as much as we have, especially in our dreams.
3) The internet, being made by humans, is for porn.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 08:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 07:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 07:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 07:34 pm (UTC)One of the things that attracted me to fanfic in the first place was the idea that, collectively, fandom could explore an almost infinite number of variations of the canon characters/settings. The idea seemed so fun and creative! After being here for a while, though, it's become clear to me that while the potential variations may be infinite, in practice they're quite limited. And while there's nothing wrong at all with the shippy/romance choice per se -- I enjoy reading it! -- after a while, the sameness of everything begins to bore me. I can keep things "fresh" for a while by moving from fandom to fandom, but eventually even that stops working.
There are so many stories we could be telling, but we often only seem to tap into the same 10% over and over again. It leaves me feeling a little disappointed sometimes.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-23 12:16 am (UTC)The bulk of my writing is shippy, and I feel this as well!
Granted, my 'shippy' is usually more action-adventure-y or has some serious drama worked in.
Someone above said that plot takes time and effort and all they want is teh sexx0rs. I know that I love the plottiness, the time and the effort, but 90% of my readers don't appreciate the little touches. Most of them just want the emotional hit from a ship fic.
In a discussion with a friend, she once observed that fanfic is basically masturbation for the fan. Most fans read smut to get off - more emotionally-pscyhologically than physically. It hits their buttons, sings their arias, creams their panties, and shoots their highs.
And, as I once observed someone else exclaim after trying to write a team-fic. "It's so much effort to write team! I'm sticking with the characters I can write." So, she's pretty much a one-pairing horse now.
Path of least resistance (and most feedback), yadda-yadda.
Actually, I was asking for gen recs on Supernatural a month back and received a grand total of 2 responses. Granted, most of the people reading me are SGA, not SPN, but I know quite a few of the f-list are SPN fans...they just don't do gen SPN.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 07:55 pm (UTC)Do you think that the proportion of sex-and/or-romance fics is much higher than the proportion of sex-and/or-romance popular songs? I have long thought that they are about the same (i.e. "most"), and therefor that "why so little genfic?" doesn't really need to be answered. Or rather, that the answer isn't about fiction or fandom, but about human nature (or possibly just about our culture in general).
In other words:
1. People like sex & romance a *lot*.
2. Most sources don't have as much sex & romance as people like.
3. Thus, fanfic is mostly about sex & romance.
I don't even know if we need step 2.
a theory via metafandom
Date: 2007-06-22 07:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 09:44 pm (UTC)It's most obvious with something like Sam/Dean, where the actors are so damn hot that you'd have to be stone to not notice, but for me personally, even in fandoms where I don't have any overt sexual attraction to my favorite characters, there's still a certain amount of "want" going on with my reactions. I can't always articulate exactly what it is that I "want" from them (except maybe "more of the same"), but the emotion is definitely there... and it's at least in the same ballpark as sexual desire.
If you look at it that way, with all characters serving as objects of desire in some way, it might actually make some sense that fandom leans toward topics that get the ol' hormones raging.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-22 09:55 pm (UTC)surfed in from metafandom
Date: 2007-06-22 09:55 pm (UTC)It can be done, and done well, even in the above mention categories of genfic--but someone who's looking for the rush that a good romance (het or slash, you pick) isn't likely to find it in the average gen story.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-23 02:18 am (UTC)I've written one gen novel and several stories, but I just prefer slash. There are more questions involved with slash, more character interpretations, more social "norms" debated, and etc. It also brings the whole concept of "partnership" or the merging of individuals into a metaphorical level with more visceral impact involved. Using the intensity of sex to relay to the reader the intensity of the partnership is a helpful writing tool. It bridges the story to the reader in a way abstractions about emotions often can't.
via metafandom
Date: 2007-06-23 04:47 am (UTC)The reason why I prefer romance to friendship or sibling!fic is pretty simple indeed, it's because I love love. Perhaps it's gotta do with the society we live in or whatever but somehow the kind of love that includes the romantic as well as the sexual seems to be some sort of an ideal, the one kind of love that is valued most. And no matter what I think of close friendships in RL that certainly can be just as loving and satisfying and lasting (probably even more so than any romantic love), in fantasy romantic love which I associate with a deep and exclusive bond between people is the most fascinating and emotionally satisfying thing I can think of.
And that's why I almost exclusively read romance mostly combined with a bit of smut (well, not big on the PWPs!).
In case of Supernatural though I have found that the love between Sam and Dean is pretty much always the same. I am deeply touched and fascinated by their canon relationship and reading gen where it's 'just' brotherly love as opposed to romantic love doesn't feel that different to the slash, i.e. Wincest, I read normally. It's deep-rooted, unshakeable love and it's so damn beautiful no matter in what way, shape of form it comes along.
And before I babble even more here...
no subject
Date: 2007-06-23 05:09 am (UTC)FWIW: there are two levels, for me.
At the simplest level -- we're social animals. We like relatedness and we like sex. Resulting in a lot of fanfic about couples relationships and sex.
At the more complex level: idealized romantic (including sexual) relationships are the modern Western-world metaphor for bliss/transcendence/perfection/God.
For most people in the post-industrial world -- sex is the most spiritual, ecstatic experience that they will ever have. And romanticized, idealized, sexualized relationships with another person are the modern metaphor for "heaven" (ie the ultimate transformative experience that is attainable by human beings).
no subject
Date: 2007-06-23 06:17 am (UTC)I can't speak for other fandoms, but I do have the numbers for SPN, and the perception that there is "little genfic" in the fandom is just that... a perception.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-23 08:16 pm (UTC)So what is it about romance and smutfics that gains so much more popularity, and why do people see the need to put canon friends and siblings in romantic and/or smutty situations?
I was wondering that myself.
I don't know if I agree with the suggestion that all the sources are genfic and omit the romance and smut. Particularly stuff like Battlestar Galactica (2003) where I've been known to say: "Enough with the bad soap opera and shoot something already!" (Actually that show is just limited to smut. There isn't any romance involved.)
I can only suppose that the perceived anonymity of the internet encourages the reading and writing of smutty romance. Maybe people are embarrassed to go out and purchase bodice rippers or erotica or check them out from the library. Maybe it's the "sex sells" thing. Maybe it's like the writing on Battlestar Galactica (2003) where the only conflict they can manage is petty personal squabbles and smut and can't develop a decent dramatic conflict around political, cultural, or ethical differences or even a decent action adventure story.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-25 01:59 pm (UTC)I write from G to NC17, but the majority falls around the PG/PG13 range. One of the most common comments I get is something along the lines of 'so when do we get to the sex?'
There are probably a lot of writers, especially newer writers, who really want the continued feedback and want to please the audience. So they listen to what the audience is requesting and that is what they create. (Luckily, I've been doing this far too long to care what anyone else wants, lol)
no subject
Date: 2007-06-25 07:39 pm (UTC)Lisa
x
no subject
Date: 2007-06-26 04:24 am (UTC)As for why people like to put canon friends into romantic situations: it's an unexplored possibility, and a lot of fanfiction is about unexplored possibilities. *shrug* I think incest fic is more complex, but it's not my thing so I won't speculate.
Personally, I like gen a lot and I write more of it these days than I used to, but it's much easier for me to find gen I like in pro fiction than romance I like, since I don't really enjoy the Traditional Het Romance or many of the other popular patterns in mainstream fiction. So I look for interesting and unusual romance in fanfiction.
no subject
Date: 2007-06-26 05:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-01 06:09 pm (UTC)1) Heterosexual romance/erotica and gay fiction/erotica are publishing categories. Gen isn't. People don't go into bookstores and think, "I'll pick up the latest gen novel." So they don't tend to think in those terms in fandom.
2) There's a lotlotlot of what we would call gen in the literary/media world. There's less of what we would call het. There's very little indeed of what we could slash, at least in terms of the types of stories that are popular with slashers. So people are writing the types of stories they can't get enough of from the pro writers.
3) Nobody loves gen. *Sniff*. Honestly, it discourages the heck out of me, because I'm a friendship fiction writer (as well as a slash writer), and to me friendship is just as exciting a topic as romance, but I just can't persuade my slasher friends in the fanfic world to get as excited about friendship fiction as I am.
I did have the major triumph of writing a friendship story that the editor of a slash zine liked so much that she promptly changed her submission guidelines to accept friendship fiction. So there's hope.
Reasons mentioned above that I don't think apply to the type of genfic I write:
1) "It's too hard to plot." No, it isn't. "A meets B, A loses B, A gets B back" is a typical friendship plot.
2) "It's not about pair-bonding between two characters, which is what fans look for in fanfic." Yes, it is. Friendship fiction can be a pair-bonding story; it just doesn't involve sexual attraction. There are blood brother stories, there are protagonist-and-sidekick stories, there are romantic friendship stories, and if anyone doesn't believe that these are pair bondings, they should go look at the canon that's being slashed.
Holmes and Watson are pair-bonded, no question about it. It's precisely because they are that slashers find it so exciting to explore what would happen if the two were sexually attracted to each other. So why not take a couple of characters who aren't pair-bonded in the original - say, two characters who have casual sex together but don't have deep feelings for each other - and explore what would happen if they ended up in a deep, deep friendship?
no subject
Date: 2007-07-21 04:28 am (UTC)