(no subject)

[author_by_night]

So I was doing that fanfic meme, and realized I had some sudden beta-reading thoughts that needed their own entry. 

So, here is my Standard List for Authors in Relation to Beta Readers.

1. Yes, you need a Beta Reader, even if you have a PhD in Creative Writing.


We're not as impartial to our fics as we'd like to be. Yes, proofreading is good, but many people read knowing what they know.  In other words, the typo is automatically spelled correctly in our minds, or perhaps we don't realize we spelled "egregious" wrong. We also don't realize a line doesn't make sense - to us, it does, because we know the character who says it. And if something doesn't fit with canon - well, it's our fic, right? So we already know our ficverse. We may be blind to the fact that in canon, that doesn't work. (And even if your fic is AU, or simply not meant to be canon, you want to make sure you still keep the canon basics. Voldemort is not a ballet dancer. Unless you are writing a parody, and it's supposed to make the reader laugh and shudder.)

2. Don't "Call a Friend", unless your friend is very honest.

If our fics are our babies, our friends are their aunties, and that means chances are, they are going to automatically love the "child." Why? Because you wrote it. Or they may hate the fic, but they don't hate you... and therefore, are not about to tell you that your fic should be rewritten immediately.

Unless, of course, they are going to be the type of aunt who will tell you, "don't make Johnny wear that outfit to school, he'll have food thrown at him during lunch." And even then, make sure they actually will. If I have friends beta read my work, I always ask them things like, "will this make sense to other people?" And otherwise invite them to open criticism. And I always try and find two people who don't know me as well. Sometimes you need a few sets of eyes, too.

3. Don't nag your Beta Reader.

Believe it or not, your Beta Reader probably has other people he or she helps, not to mention their own stories - and then, even more importantly, real life matters. (Work, school, family, etc.) They're not going to necessarily be able to get your fic done in a day. I range in when I can get back to my beta-ees: If it's during a weekend, probably within a day, but if I get the fic during the week days, I usually take a bit longer. And that's if the fic is a seven page one shot. If your fic is a long chapter fic... give me a week. And a lot of betas need a week even for one shots. You need to remember that while we care, we do have other tasks.

However...

4. Don't be afraid to send a reminder.

If you haven't heard from your Beta Reader in two weeks, and they normally do not take that long (or they told you they'd have it back in five days), email them. Chances are they thought they sent it back, got busy and forgot to email you, or even lost your email address and have no means of contacting you. (This actually has happened with me and a Beta-ee... I lost her email address because I accidentally deleted it, and couldn't find it again. I wish she'd emailed me and asked what had happened, because it would've been appreciated!)

That said, be careful how you do it. Rudeness doesn't win anyone over. 

5. Feel free to let your Betas know when the fic gets posted.

We like to know the aftermath, so to speak. :) However, this isn't a must, just something that is appreciated.

Anyone else have Beta tips?

Comments

[ehnel.livejournal.com]

We like to know the aftermath, so to speak. :) However, this isn't a must, just something that is appreciated.

A heartfelt agreement to that! The greatest frustration of my beta-ing life was an author who just did. not. tell. me where she was putting her fic. I asked outright, and she never said. It was so annoying.

My beta-ee tip: send an email after recieving a beta'd fic to say thanks, even if you have no issues with any of the suggestions,e tc. A] It lets the beta know the work got though and B] these small courtesies are much appreciated and will help build a good relationship.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Oh, right! Yeah, "thanks" really is appreciated. :)

[zoepaleologa.livejournal.com]

My tips:

Agree the remit of the job. I tend to have at anything, unless told otherwise.

Firmly agree tolerance levels. The most horrid experience I ever had as a beta reader included the most ghastly and vomitous sex scene I'd ever clapped eyes on (sadly, it's not even the Bronze, these days). Spend some time agreeing what content squicks, it will save tears later.

Finally: respect your beta when she says the bit you think is really cool is actually out to lunch. This is your last chance to take a reality check before a less friendly reader gets to you. I once lobbed a present-tense chapter into a past-historic fic. I thought it was all "dream like" - my beta (quite correctly) pointed out it was just a bit stupid. I fixed.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Agree with both. :) Especially the last. Though of course, if you think something still works... I say tweak it, and then ask the beta if it's okay. Sometimes it's all opinion, too.

[aebhel.livejournal.com]

Of course, betas can still be wrong...

All I'm saying is that the fact that your beta reader happens to dislike a particular segment of the story isn't an excuse to throw critical thought out the window and play 'follow the leader.' The whole point of a beta reader--at least in my book--is to give an author advice. It's up to the author to decide which advice to follow.

[julibeth.livejournal.com]

Wonderful post, Amy.

I agree with everything. I think the most important thing is to keep an open mind when you get your beta'd fic back. I think that'd go for the beta-er (is that a word?!), as well.

I'd love to see a post for the "5 commandments of being a Beta-Reader."

[parsimonia.livejournal.com]

Haha, nice. You should talk to my friend who used to beta all the time...she wanted to create the Society for the Promotion of Beta Reader Welfare. lol

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Ha!

[dbassassin.livejournal.com]

Hi. Here from hogwarts_today

To everything stated above, I'd add:

- If you disagree with a comment/correction/suggestion your beta makes, ask rather than just ignore it.
- Be up front about what you want from your beta. Unless I hear otherwise, I make comments/suggestions about everything, starting with characterisation and plot (sometimes to the chagrin/horror of the writer).
- Acknowledge your beta when you post.
- For heaven's sake, spell check! :D
- If you know the characters are wildly OOC, please tell your beta this up front, so they don't write two pages of comments as to why they think Snape wouldn't become a florist after the defeat of Voldemort (or some other such thing).
- Read your fic through at least once before you send it. Make an effort to get it in posting-ready shape first; if I have to plow through a rough draft and re-write it, I consider that co-authorship, not editing.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

People object to you commenting on everything?! That's what I like most in a Beta Reader, and what I try and do while Beta-Reading.

Also, YES to the OOC comment. If you don't want it to be canon, tell me. (It may mean I'm not the beta for you, but nonetheless...)

[dbassassin.livejournal.com]

People object to you commenting on everything?!

Yes. Believe it or not, some people think that the beta's job is to correct their puntuation and pat them on the back for a job well done. Which is why I do so little beta-ing, now.

For me, the issue is not people refusing to acknowledge that they need a beta; the issue is trying to find one. I mean one that's competent and reliable. Unless you have a massive flist of experienced writers that you can draw on, you're out of luck.

I think that's the problem for so many of the youngsters and beginners out there - they simply don't have contact with people who would make appropriate betas. And when you're new (or fairly new) in a fandom, you don't want to pester the better-known writers.

[xinexpressiblex.livejournal.com]

People aren't used to receiving stylistic suggestions. I've been through so many betas and at least 80% of them only do the bare bones. They maybe have one stylistic comment for a 35 page chapter and the rest is just punctuation and such.

I'm considering writing something up on how to beta because there are so many people that want to but have no idea how and end up doing nothing for an author. *emo tear* Finding a good beta is impossible...
-TJ

[dbassassin.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of people are hesitant about making stylistic suggestions because they feel that style is "personal" and therefore commenting on/criticising someone else's writing style comes off as a personal attack. Which I think is insane, but so many fanfic writers are so "sensitive", it's not surprising that a lot of people can't be bothered to take on the drama. That observation is based on my experience in HP; other fandoms may be different.

Part of the problem, of course, is that to get good quality crit, your beta has to be at least as good a writer as you. Or they have to possess a better understanding of how things should read, and the mechanics of good quality prose. And if you're a proficient writer to begin with, that makes the task of finding a truly helpful beta that much more difficult.

[house-illrepute.livejournal.com]

I think this is where a bit of interpersonal relationship development can kick in. I mean, I don't hesitate to make stylistic recommendations, especially if I can point to a strength of the authors' that I believe the suggestion would be an asset toward.

Add a dash of self-deprecating humour and a reminder that the suggestion "is purely a stylistic one and can be tossed in the rubbish bin with the rest of my rot"... and I've yet to offend or hurt any feelings.

Some betas, especially the ones willing to make stylistic suggestions, seem to think that 'being blunt' means running a rusty cheese grater along the back of the author followed by a hefty dip in a vat of lemon juice.

And, of course, that's not always needed...


... not always, at least. :wink;

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I've managed to ...

[house-illrepute.livejournal.com]

Yes. Believe it or not, some people think that the beta's job is to correct their puntuation and pat them on the back for a job well done. Which is why I do so little beta-ing, now.

wh-a-a-a-a-a-a-t?!?!?!

wow.

that just boggles.

i'll do just the corrections... but if i see the same mistakes over and over, i'll put a little blurb in there. and, if i see it again in future fics (especially the next chapter), i'll throw a reminder on there... after that, i do tend to get a little nippy about it.

but i try and funnel out the people that what just the little 'oh fix this and send it back, please' and keep on the ones who, at least claim to, want to learn from their mistakes.

which, admittedly, is even harder to do than find a beta.

:wink;

[larilee.livejournal.com]

1). Always ask how your beta would like to be acknowledged.

2). Try to be content with your chapter before you send it. If you don't like it, don't send it to your beta and then send them three other versions, one right after the other, and expect them to enthusiastically beta read them all within 24 hours to put together the chapter that really works.

3). Even if your beta has been your beta for one long story, always ask if it's okay to send your next story.

4). Get the important thing settled first. What won't your beta read, what sort of timeframe can you expect your chapters returned, et cetera.

5). There is no harm in asking for references, and there's no harm in supplying a writing sample or giving references yourself.

6). Don't blame your beta if a moderated archive requests corrections.

7). That there are special Canon spellings in your fandom, add them to your spellcheck program and use it.

Thank you!

[angiepen.livejournal.com]

[Here from metafandom. [wave]]

I basically agree with you, except for number one. :) I've never used a beta reader and have never gotten any complaints. Being the only person responsible for what gets posted with my name on it has, I believe, made me a stronger and more thorough editor of my own work. I have no one to point at if something sneaks by; it's all on me.

And things do sneak by and I make corrections when I spot them, even months later, but on the whole my stories as posted are mechanically cleaner than those of many other writers who do use betas. Multiple betas even. [wry smile]

When I first started posting fiction online, in the late eighties, the term "beta reader" didn't exist. It just wasn't there, hadn't been coined yet. Some people had friends read their stuff over, some people workshopped, but most just paid attention to what they posted and did their best to learn and improve, which made them better writers in general as well as help prevent them from being embarassed when other people read their stories. And honestly, the general level of craftsmanship in posted stories back then was no worse than it is now.

But I never got into the habit of having someone else read my stuff before I post it and still don't see the need to change my work habits. I'm comfortable with the way I do things and as I said, no one's ever complained so I guess I'm doing well enough. :)

I'm not saying other people shouldn't use betas (although I have some issues with the kind of (poor) job too many betas clearly do) but I don't think it's right to state that everyone "should" use a beta. I think it's an individual choice and so long as the writer is willing to live with the consequencess, that's up to them.

Angie

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Hm... good point. I don't think it's something everyone absolutely has to do, I just highly suggest it, for the reasons I supplied.

It is a good point about your story therefore being your own, and I certainly don't believe people should necessarily change an entire plot because the beta said they had to. But I just think it's advisable, for the reasons I listed.

But hey, if you don't use them, that's perfectly fine. And I certainly didn't mean to say everyone should use one, more that I feel it's a very good idea. But it's just an opinion. ;)

[mmebahorel.livejournal.com]

And for some of us, it's not an option. I have one fandom, that I write in not for the audience but because I need to write it, but I post just in case anyone out there in the world might happen to care. I know everyone on LJ who knows the fandom. It's a very rare fandom - there isn't even a body of people somewhere in the world who a) know the fandom and b) know what fandom is. I can't get my stuff checked for adherence to canon or characterisation because the few people who do know the fandom are too busy to beta my work.

I don't need someone to check my spelling and grammar. I need someone to tell me it makes sense for the characters (especially the random, historically inaccurate but thoroughly adorable and probably in character slash). If a beta doesn't know the fandom, he/she is no help to me.

[angiepen.livejournal.com]

I think we both agree that everyone's entitled to an opinion here, and to act on their own opinion of what they should do. Adding in the possibility of a writer who's mistaken about her own competence in various areas of craftsmanship puts in an (eventually) self-correcting feature, since someone who's posting garbage is going to find that the responses aren't all they'd hoped for. [wry smile]

Angie

[lira-snape.livejournal.com]

Good points. :)

Going to link this with my Writing help links (http://lira-snape.livejournal.com/12817.html). :)

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Oh, thanks! :) I'll also have to take a look at the other links.

[lira-snape.livejournal.com]

If you have other links you think I should add to my list (both posts by you and posts by others), feel free to tell me. :)
The more useful links I know, the more helpful the whole list will be. :)