More Snowflake

[author_by_night]

 Challenge #6

Top 10 Challenge. Post your answer to today’s challenge in your own space and leave a comment in this post saying you did it.

Include a link to your post if you feel comfortable doing so. Also, feel free to entice engagement by giving us a preview of what your post covers.

The category(ies) you choose are up to you. You can give top 10 Fics you read last year, the top 10 songs to create to, the to 10 guest stars on your favorite show, top 10 characters in your favorite book series, top 10... well, you get the idea.

 Let's see.. how about Ten Takes? 

1. From what I remember of The Hunger Games, I never understood people saying there was a "love triangle". It seemed clear to me that Katniss was never into Gale, and she only played into the concept of love triangle because of the reality TV show District 13 had them doing.

2. Given everything that was supposed to happen to Inara, I'm actually kind of relieved there was only one season of Firefly. Kind of. There's a good chance the network never would've allowed half of it anyway.

3. I'm kind of surprised there don't seem to be many former Firefly fans in the Our Flag Means Death fandom, from what I can tell. I think they're actually quite similar. (Even the second season of OFMD being darker mirrored Serenity being darker than the original show. Funny how that worked.)

4. Buffy: I wish that Willow's descent had actually focused more on her going to drastic extremes to fight the good fight, as well as her trauma, rather than "magic as a drug metaphor". The fact that Willow originally became a witch to honor Jenny Calendar is huge, and that's what I think they could've worked with.

5. I don't like either Spike or Angel for Buffy. Sorry! I kind of wish she'd ended up with Faith. I saw chemistry between them when I watched S3 for the first time, without any exposure to Fuffy whatsoever. (Which is interesting, because I was spoiled for practically everything except Faith.)

6. I have a headcanon - which I may eventually turn into a fic - that Cordy, Fred and Tara banded together and are kicking ass in an alternate dimension. Maybe a parallel version of Willow is also there.

7. I think Kevin Can Fuck Himself is woefully underrated, and if it had received half the recognition it deserved, it would've sparked a lot of interesting conversation. 

8.   I think David and Patrick from Schitt's Creek are one of the best couples on television. No pun intended re: "the best". Also, I see a bit of myself in David (I just told a friend I'm David Rose in a Ted Mullens costume), so I appreciate seeing him finding love and friendship, even if he is basically the inside of a roasted marshmallow. 

9. But as much as I love David and Patrick, I think Alexis deserves more love in the fandom. She changes so much over the course of the show. 

9.  I don't want to spoil anyone for Heated Rivalry, so I'll just say I love how the third episode dealt with an extremely complicated situation. Lani Diane Rich once said that a great love story is when a conversation can't fix a problem, and that episode was an example.

10. There are two scenes where Ilya opens up in different ways - again, wording this carefully so as not to spoil. I love both of them.

Also, "Canadian Wolf Bird" will forever live in my head rent free.

Comments

[pattrose]

I love some of these shows. But on the Heated Rivalry, let me know if you would like to see the Moodboards I made for them. :)

[author_by_night]

Sure!

[pattrose]

If you like these, you can use them wherever you like. Enjoy.

Boys

[author_by_night]

Thanks!

[rogueslayer452]

The whole "love triangle" thing in The Hunger Games was definitely an in-verse thing, played up for the Capitol, as you said, however I also think our in real life media caught wind of this and misunderstood the concept (as it did throughout its entire marketing, tbh) which led to the whole "Team Peeta vs. Team Gale" nonsense that overtook everything, especially since it was around the time of Twilight doing the same thing so, naturally, it was a marketing ploy during the making of the movies. Additionally, from what I recall, there were rumors about Suzanne Collins not wanting there to be a "love triangle" but was forced by her publishers to do so in order for the books to sell better. I don't know how accurate or true this is, however it wouldn't surprise me.

(I personally would've loved for there to have been no romance at all, and that everything was played up for the Capitol and Katniss, Gale and Peeta just remained close friends without any romance attached, kind of a "fuck you" to the expectations of both the Capitol and the tropes featured in such stories, but that's just me, I suppose.)

I agree in regards to Firefly only remaining one season. I love the show, flaws and all, but after hearing what was intended had they gotten a second season it makes me relieved we didn't have that. I also agree that it probably wouldn't have happened in the way that it was described, or even happen at all since changes in production and scrapped scenes happen all the time, but nevertheless.

I wish that Willow's descent had actually focused more on her going to drastic extremes to fight the good fight, as well as her trauma, rather than "magic as a drug metaphor". The fact that Willow originally became a witch to honor Jenny Calendar is huge, and that's what I think they could've worked with.

They really dropped the ball when it came to Willow during that arc, not gonna lie. I'm not the biggest Willow fan, but there was much to explore with her character and her relationship with magic that could've happened naturally that wasn't....whatever the hell that was. It just kind of came out of left field. There was also the whole thing with Tara being a natural witch versus Willow being a witch practitioner that I think also needed more exploring alongside with that. We did get a little bit of it in S6 with Willow using magic to "fix" things and avoiding responsibility and facing consequences of her actions, but it just wasn't fully examined and went nowhere aside from the bad "magic = drug addiction" metaphor.

Buffy/Faith is my OTP, and I also wished they'd gotten together too. :) Although, I do like Buffy/Angel and they are my second OTP behind Buffy/Faith.

I have a headcanon - which I may eventually turn into a fic - that Cordy, Fred and Tara banded together and are kicking ass in an alternate dimension.

Oh, I love that idea!

[author_by_night]

owever I also think our in real life media caught wind of this and misunderstood the concept (as it did throughout its entire marketing, tbh) which led to the whole "Team Peeta vs. Team Gale" nonsense that overtook everything, especially since it was around the time of Twilight doing the same thing so, naturally, it was a marketing ploy during the making of the movies

I was just going to say, Twilight definitely played a role in that. They wanted to do what Twilight was doing. And yes, I believe Gale was initially Katniss's cousin, not a love interest at all!


(I personally would've loved for there to have been no romance at all,

Same here. It would have been a great subversion. If she published the books now, she might actually have an easier time of it - Frozen and Tangled made letting the hero be single cool. Then again, romantasy's in, and while THG isa YA sci fi/dystopia, that didn't change the Twilight comparisons back then, either.

on. I love the show, flaws and all, but after hearing what was intended had they gotten a second season it makes me relieved we didn't have that. I also agree that it probably wouldn't have happened in the way that it was described, or even happen at all since changes in production and scrapped scenes happen all the time, but nevertheless.

Yeah, I think the show would have gotten very dark either way. Look at what happened to AtS, or even Buffy, really. I think it worked better on Buffy than on Angel, minus the Willow thing, but it was still a very different show than how it started. I'm not sure we needed Kaylee as Simon's evil and embittered ex, Inara Dead and Mal sad, etc. etc.

ield. There was also the whole thing with Tara being a natural witch versus Willow being a witch practitioner

I really wish we could've explored that! Is there a difference? How does it work? Could Tara have Slayer lineage? (Doubtful, but interesting to consider.)

We did get a little bit of it in S6 with Willow using magic to "fix" things and avoiding responsibility and facing consequences of her actions, but it just wasn't fully examined and went nowhere aside from the bad "magic = drug addiction" metaphor.

Exactly. Honestly, to me it felt more like Willow had depression, for the most part. Which again, could have worked well with Buffy's.

The other thing is, magic was used as a metaphor for lesbian sex in the fourth and fifth seasons. Then it becomes a drug metaphor, then it becomes about rage and avenging Tara's murder? I don't think that's how the show meant for it to land, but it does land badly.

What do you think of Cordelia and Angel? I find I'm good either way with that one.

[rogueslayer452]

Same here. It would have been a great subversion.

It makes me sad of thinking of these "what ifs" because, unfortunately, much of the fandom drama came from the shipping wars (what else is new?) and the mainstream media fed into that with the promotions and marketing for the movies. I mean, I had my own little rarepairing ships (Katniss/Madge and Katniss/Haymitch) but otherwise, canonically, I didn't really want romance to be a major focus or even something to happen in the end of the series and instead I wanted it to be a subversion of expectations. The point was that Katniss (and Peeta) were being used and controlled as political pawns and they needed to play into the narrative spun by the Capitol as a means to survive and protect their loved ones, but it would've been their greatest tool of defiance to rebel against that in the end by saying, "nah, we're just friends".

There are so many stories out there that don't need to end in romance. Fans can ship whoever they want to, of course, but canonically romance doesn't need to be endgame or something to strive for.

I really wish we could've explored that! Is there a difference? How does it work? Could Tara have Slayer lineage? (Doubtful, but interesting to consider.)

I feel like magic in that world should've been explored a bit more in general, because there were several instances of characters wielding magic that acquired it from different backgrounds. Jenny Calender was a technopagan (and comes from a Romani tribe that first cursed Angel to begin with so there is heritage there), Willow became a practitioner of magic in honor of Jenny Calender getting her first taste in attempting to restore Angel's soul in season two and kind of gradually grew from there, Tara and Amy were natural witches who inherited it from their mothers, and even Giles seems to have dabbled in magic himself. It does feel like there was a lot of magic users who either had natural or practiced talents, but they weren't all the same, not always at the same level and not always practicing the same kind of magic.

(I have a lot of thoughts on this, because I also think about how Tara would've been the one to say that resurrecting Buffy wasn't a good idea, probably would've sensed that she was actually in Heaven and not some hell/demon dimension, since she was a naturally born witch and more tuned into her magic and the balance of everything than Willow was, but that's a rant for another time.)

The other thing is, magic was used as a metaphor for lesbian sex in the fourth and fifth seasons. Then it becomes a drug metaphor, then it becomes about rage and avenging Tara's murder? I don't think that's how the show meant for it to land, but it does land badly.

It really does. I think most agree that the "magic = drug addiction" metaphor was bad to begin with, and when you bring that into the conversation it makes it look even worse. I don't think they thought about the implications, just looking for some kind of thing for the plot to go forward and ran into a wall and went with that, but yeah, it doesn't look good and it really, really lands badly.

What do you think of Cordelia and Angel? I find I'm good either way with that one.

As a couple? I don't particularly care for it, honestly.

[hamsterwoman]

I'm with you on Buffy/Faith! (I found Buffy/Angel deeply boring, and Buffy/Spike interesting but in a way that made me like both characters less, while Buffy/Faith had so much interesting stuff going on! And I 100% saw it just in the show, when I usually don't even ship f/f.

Also agreed with you on the Hunger Games point.

[author_by_night]

I liked Buffy/Angel until I watched Angel the series. Then it was like, "Angel, what are you doing? Go fight Wolfram and Hart." I don't know, there's just something about Angel in his own show.

Buffy/Spike interesting but in a way that made me like both characters less

That's a great way of putting it.

[mekare]

>> Buffy: I wish that Willow's descent had actually focused more on her going to drastic extremes to fight the good fight, as well as her trauma, rather than "magic as a drug metaphor".

It‘s been ages but yes!

[kingstoken]

I love the third episode of Heated Rivalry, as you said "a conversation doesn't fix it". That episode made me fall in love with Scott and Kip, which is saying a lot considering they don't get as much screen time as Shane and Ilya. I loved episode 5, but I found myself really wanting to know what they had been up to in the mean time, like have they still been talking even though they weren't together? One podcast I watched had this theory that Scott left tickets for Kip for every game and this was the first time he showed up because it was the playoffs. I know that I could just read their book, but I also know that they made a lot of changes to their story to adapt it to the show, at least from the discourse I've seen online.

[author_by_night]

I know that I could just read their book, but I also know that they made a lot of changes to their story to adapt it to the show, at least from the discourse I've seen online.

I've also heard the book wasn't as good? I read a sample with it, and can't say I was terribly impressed. Though to be fair, it's pretty much line-by-line from the show (or I should say, the show pretty much takes from the book line-by-line) so that probably didn't help.

I was also a little confused by season five's conclusion, as much as I was endeared to it. I love the idea that Scott left tickets for Kip. My personal headcanon is that Scott kept getting smoothies - the first time was basically just muscle memory, but then he started going more often, and they'd talk. I definitely got the sense they'd been in touch, if he got tickets for Kip, Kip's dad and Elena.

[kingstoken]

I also heard that Game Changers wasn't as good, but a lot of people were saying it was her first published novel and that Reid's writing has improved as she has gone along. That was the story that started out as a Stucky fic.

I also like the idea that he kept going to the smoothie place and they still talk, even if they weren't romantically together, and they're just yearning for each other the whole time!

[author_by_night]

"I read a sample with it" I think that was God punishing me for being judgmental. :)

I agree, it was her first novel. Rachel Reid has also acknowledged that it was hard going from fic to RL writing, and I think that's part of it. I've actually noticed similar patterns in a few books that were either clearly based on fanfic, or written by people mostly used to writing fanfic. For instance, a lot of them just... start. There's minimal character introduction or worldbuilding. This is partly due to fear of exposition dumping, but you also don't have to introduce characters in a fic. You don't necessarily have to even introduce the world (although sometimes I notice that problem in AU fic as well, where we're not really given any context for the AU - but it's easier to pull that off in a fic than an original novel).

I'm writing a book now, and I've noticed that in myself. I have to really focus on telling my audience who these characters are and where the story takes place, rather than just taking for granted that they already know.

[kingstoken]

Yeah, the easy part of writing in a well known universe is that you don't need to establish anything, like if you're writing a Star Wars fic and you mention light sabres you don't need to explain what light sabres are because everyone already knows.

Now that I know that Game Changers was based on a Stucky AU you can see that Scott comes across as very "Steve Rogers" coded. I think Kip comes across as a little more of an original character, he doesn't scream "Bucky" at me. At least from what I know, Stucky isn't my pairing, and I don't read a lot of Marvel fic.

Also, good luck with your book!

[lunabee34]

I love your idea for Cordy, Fred, and Tara kicking ass in an alternate dimension.

[author_by_night]

Thanks!

[soricel]

I love the idea of being David Rose in a Ted Mullens costume. :)) But also, yes, Alexis! I haven't finished the series yet, so haven't really dipped into looking at any fic for fear of spoilers, but I *did* notice that Alexis seems pretty underrepresented! I'm going to chalk this up, in part, to how hard it seems to me to try describing in writing all the facial gestures and sounds she makes.

[author_by_night]

How far are you?

Yeah, Alexis was a little more represented in the early days, but the focus has always been primarily on David and Patrick. Which is fair, but like I said, I'd love for Alexis to get just a little more focus.

I think some of it is difficulty writing her, maybe? People generally do a good job, though!

[soricel]

Just about done with the last season. :) I'm gonna challenge myself to write something Alexis-centric when I finish. :))

[author_by_night]

Great! Looking forward to it when you do.

[mollywheezy]

I completely agree with you about The Hunger Games. And like other commenters, I would have preferred romance to be left out of it.

What was supposed to happen if Firefly had a Season 2? I can imagine, but never actually heard.

[nocowardsoul]

#7 - I love Kevin Can F**k Himself! Sexism on family sitcoms is a longtime interest of mine, so I was looking forward to it from the moment it was announced, and it didn't disappoint!

[kat_lair]

#4 this. THIS.

[elizalavelle]

1. I think the Hunger Games love triangle was mostly because that was the trend in YA at the time and Gale starts off as quite hot AND people have a hard time with friendships that are in opposite sexes.

2. Agreed. Joss wasn't good with that kind of nuance or writing and it would have been a mess. I'm glad we got the show as it was.

3. I'll get in there eventually ;)

4. Agreed. Magic as drugs was fine but they could have done something more interesting.

5. Oh Buffy and Faith for sure had chemestry. I'm a Spike fangirl but I would have loved Fuffy to be a thing.

6. Good headcannon.

7. Don't know this one.

8. Awww they are sweet. I've not watched all of it but what I've seen is very sweet.

9. Haven't seen enough but I think the actress is great.

10. I LOVE ALL OF THE SCENES
I need stupid canadian wolf bird merch lol

[silveradept]

Re: The Hunger Games:

I'd be utterly unsurprised if Katniss turned out entirely ace, or completely uninterested in either Gale or Peeta, but there was so much manipulation, PR, and other such things going on around her, and because she knew she had to play along to survive, that we'll never really know if the feelings she developed for Peeta were real, or whether she has seen it all these years as being a symbol of something, rather than her own personal feelings about anyone. What might have been had she been able to escape the influences of Capitol and Thirteen alike. And what might have happened to Peeta if he'd been able to do the same.

Re; Inara: And given what we know about Joss now, and the way he treats both fictional and actual women, I'm sure we would have received the treatment of Inara in as much as he thought he could get away with on the screen.

Re; OFMD: I see where you're coming from, but I think OFMD wears its queerness out in the open, while Firefly's stayed much more coded and uch more in a sex-worker and sex-negative kind of way. The good things that happen during OFMD, I feel, would turn Firefly fans away from the show. You're not wrong that there could be lots of overlap, but I think what OFMD embraced is what Firefly would have rejected.

Re: Willow: Yes! And while the continuation comic books worked things out better with Willow and her relationship to magic, it really would have done a much better job if the portrayal of Willow's descent really was a lot more about grief and longing and feeling extremely put out that a random event managed to take away love from her, even though she was feeling like the love was trying to slip away from her, as well.

Re: Buffy/Faith: Eliza and Sarah have so much chemistry together! So much more so than James or David, and it shows. I agree with you that Faith and Buffy would have been a better relationship for them both, even with all of Faith's issues, than Spike or Angel. (I personally have a soft spot for Buffy/Willow, but I think it's because Willow's had a big crush on Buffy and Buffy would be entirely bewildered at having someone who will treat her like the young woman she is, instead of seeing her as the Slayer first.)

Takes beget takes, yo.

[author_by_night]

Takes beget takes, yo.


I looove long takes! So thank you!

I'd be utterly unsurprised if Katniss turned out entirely ace, or completely uninterested in either Gale or Peeta, but there was so much manipulation, PR, and other such things going on around her, and because she knew she had to play along to survive, that we'll never really know if the feelings she developed for Peeta were real, or whether she has seen it all these years as being a symbol of something, rather than her own personal feelings about anyone.

That's a very good point. She was never really able to sit with her choices in a normal way. Perhaps it would be more settling if we'd had a flash forward to her making an active choice - be it Peeta, Gale OR neither, as you suggest - when things were transitioning to some semblance of normalcy. Because indeed, she did know she had to play along to survive.

. What might have been had she been able to escape the influences of Capitol and Thirteen alike. And what might have happened to Peeta if he'd been able to do the same.

Definitely. That could have made for an interesting story if she had, actually. But there also wasn't really anywhere for her to go.

(As a side note, I do wonder if any other countries existed in this universe, or if Panem was the only nation left? Not that I think they'd necessarily know if there were other countries. I'm sure there'd be plenty of propaganda making sure they didn't, actually. Forgive me if we know, I'm not in the fandom, and read the books quite a while ago.)


Re; Inara: And given what we know about Joss now, and the way he treats both fictional and actual women, I'm sure we would have received the treatment of Inara in as much as he thought he could get away with on the screen.

Yeah, exactly. Even the sex worker aspect was problematic - I actually liked that most of society respected her, but sometimes it seemed like she didn't have as much agency as we were otherwise led to believe (like that gross guy at the ball who Mal duels with - I forget the character's name now). Sure, it ends with Inara telling him that he actually can't tell her what to do, but she spent most of that episode acting as though she in fact DID have to obey his every word. It was strange. And of course, Mal calling her a whore. I just think Joss being Joss, he was convinced that he was this defender of women despite actually being quite sexist and gross himself, and it showed in the very mixed messages. I think a more informed team could have done better by Inara, even in the early 2000s.


Re; OFMD: I see where you're coming from, but I think OFMD wears its queerness out in the open, while Firefly's stayed much more coded and uch more in a sex-worker and sex-negative kind of way. The good things that happen during OFMD, I feel, would turn Firefly fans away from the show. You're not wrong that there could be lots of overlap, but I think what OFMD embraced is what Firefly would have rejected.

That's a very valid point. I was speaking more to the pirate aspect of both shows. At the same time, I liked OFMD because it actually has mostly queer and POC characters. But the fact that Firefly doesn't is a stark difference. Firefly's cast is mostly white, with no Asian characters despite the fact that America and China apprently merged together in this universe. We get exactly one episode where we learn Inara also takes on female clients, and it's met with gawking. And in fact, we see several episodes where parts of their society seem to have regressed. In OFMD, we get a world that actually takes place in the modern era, but they actively fight against the restrictions of their time.

Also, Browncoats being influenced by Confederates who went out west is a pretty terrible aspect of the show. Versus the characters on OFMD fighting the effects of Colonialism.

So you're right. OFMD was very much what Firefly rejected.

Re: Willow: Yes! And while the continuation comic books worked things out better with Willow and her relationship to magic, it really would have done a much better job if the portrayal of Willow's descent really was a lot more about grief and longing and feeling extremely put out that a random event managed to take away love from her, even though she was feeling like the love was trying to slip away from her, as well.

YES. Exactly.

I haven't read the comics, but I'm glad to hear they've worked things out better.

ffy would have been a better relationship for them both, even with all of Faith's issues, than Spike or Angel. (I personally have a soft spot for Buffy/Willow, but I think it's because Willow's had a big crush on Buffy and Buffy would be entirely bewildered at having someone who will treat her like the young woman she is, instead of seeing her as the Slayer first.)


I really like that idea, too. And they both relate to each other, but from different angles. I think that's why Buffy couldn't really date "normal" people - she needed someone who truly related to having powers and fighting the good fight, and Willow does, even if she came to them in a different way.

I agree with you that Faith and Buffy would have been a better relationship for them both, even with all of Faith's issues, than Spike or Angel.

Yeah... I think they could have worked with that. After all, they worked with Angel having been Angelus for a spell, and everything Spike did.