Snowflake Challenge: Oh My Bob. Becky, Look at Her Post.

[author_by_night]

 Day 3: In your own space, talk about a fandom opinion you hold that has changed over time.
 
First, for transparency's sake, I actually struggled with this question as I've held a lot of misconceptions over the years. I've been in fandom since 2000, after all.  I'm also not entirely sure what I've covered before.

But I think one, which was touched on in sarajayechan 's post, is the strict standards a lot of the internet held people to. Fanfic writing in particular - as their entry points out, it was considered fine to criticize or even openly mock a fic because "you posted it, it's fair game now". Which I don't think was fair. But it was also acceptable to make fun of how people typed on forums and on LJ comms. The kinds of things people said.  

I even corrected people on forums I belonged to, and when I say I didn't see anything wrong with it, I really mean it. I thought I was saving them, the way  terse forum mod sonce "saved" me. Except what were mods saving me from? What was I saving those people from? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

It was also common to make fun of individual fandomers, whether their fics or just who they were in fandom. Often the comments were way too personal, especially when it came to fic writers. Even when it came to people who deserved personal criticism, sometimes comments still went way too far.

It's interesting. This isn't really fandom, but stick with me here. I was thinking about the site STFU Parents, which made fun of the way parents (usually moms) talked about their kids on social media. I remember feeling like the blog was very harsh, and I recently gave it a re-read. While there were certainly awful posts that deserved to get sporked, a lot of them were just... people daring to talk about their kids instead of whatever was "cool" to like on the internet at the time. Sometimes they'd USE ALL CAPS or word something a little awkwardly. Okay? It happens. And no, I didn't care about people's kids either, I was online to geek out about stuff, but I also realized Facebook wasn't where geekery was happening. (I'm not saying that people necessarily thought that, either, I'm just. Saying.)

Even the reaction to Rebecca Black's "Friday" is arguably part of this idea that the internet had to be protected from... something. You're Wrong About (I think) had a whole episode about that, where they pointed out that those kinds of videos were outliers on YouTube back then. I get why Rebecca Black stood out like a sore thumb, but let's maybe not make fun of thirteen year old girls? That bothered me too. (And can I just say, Party in the USA, released around that same time, wasn't a whole lot better? Miley Cyrus just sings like, well, Miley Cyrus, whereas Rebecca Black just sang like a teenage girl. Because she was a teenage girl. Maybe Glee made us forget how most teenagers sing.)

So yeah. The internet is a lot worse in many ways, unfortunately. But I'm glad I can read YouTube comments now without losing my faith in humanity, I'm glad people aren't flamed on Ao3 as frequently as they were on fanfiction.net. (At least in my experience.)

Comments

[sarajayechan]

the strict standards a lot of the internet held people to.

Big time. Like during my earlier days in the Fire Emblem fandom, some of the old guard were elitist as fuck when it came to people's fanfics and projects and RP. Like they'd say "this fandom could use some quality control" as an excuse for snarking other people's fics, shittalking my friend because she was 16 and had over the top off the wall story ideas, making fun of journal RPs because the RPers "didn't have any talent".

(Yet if they got picked on they'd complain about THEIR hurt feelings. Go figure.)

But yeah, "it's the internet" is not an excuse for public bashing and humiliation of other people.

[author_by_night]

. Like they'd say "this fandom could use some quality control"

Ugh, that's awful. I saw a lot of that myself.

, making fun of journal RPs because the RPers "didn't have any talent".


You know, I vaguely remember those being talked about negatively myself. I participated in a few of those, and honestly, we weren't looking for anyone's opinion anyway. At least fanfic writers do ask for people to review. (Just. Not like that.)

[sarajayechan]

If fandom needed any "quality control" it was in the behavior of fans, not their creations.

Journal RP was a big target for ridicule. So many uptight fans whining "everyone's so OOC!" because the players had different takes on the characters than them, or acting like the point of an RP was to mimic canon perfectly and write eloquent posts rather than having fun.

[author_by_night]

Yeah, that sounds about right.

I will say there were sometimes debates within RPGs about characterization. It's hard when everyone has different interpretations.

[stardust_rifle]

While I’m not as gung-ho on saying that the internet has gotten kinder in general, the culture of making fun of people’s fic in public has disappeared from my spaces, and I’m greatful for that.

(Also, Youtube comments have totally gotten better in general, not just less mean. Actually funny jokes, thoughtful engagement with the video- what’s up?

[author_by_night]

While I’m not as gung-ho on saying that the internet has gotten kinder in general, the culture of making fun of people’s fic in public has disappeared from my spaces, and I’m greatful for that.


Yeah, I... walked that one back after re-reading. It's just changed in the ways I mentioned.

ETA: Really reflecting on it, I'd actually argue in many ways, it's more toxic? Kind of hard to explain. But it also probably depends on your fandom. In my last active fandom, yeah, people could be HUGE assholes, but it wasn't a thing to have entire communities dedicated to making bad fanfic. But there might be equivalents of that in some fandoms. It just seems more commonly accepted that you shouldn't be mean about people's fics, and if you are, you're called out for it.


(Also, Youtube comments have totally gotten better in general, not just less mean. Actually funny jokes, thoughtful engagement with the video- what’s up?

I do think it actually helps that people's accounts are linked with their google accounts, even if you can still create a username.

Not sure what it's like on TikTok.

[bleodswean]

It was such a strange time. LiveJournal really was a hot mess of wank that just sucked people in.

[elizalavelle]

I do like a good bit of snark on the internet but I like when it's something that feels less designed to be mean. Right now I'm digging the Fox Mulder is a Maniac podcast and it's funny but is also hosted by people who are huge XFiles fans so while they're making fun of aspects of the show they're not trying to tear it all down.

The internet has a lot of misogyny and that's something we've seen play out a lot. Rebecca Black is a great example of that. She was a kid, yes the video was cheesy and self indulgent but blame the industry that took her parent's money, don't bully a kid.

[rogueslayer452]

Man, I'm honestly glad that mocking individual people in fandom as a pastime hobby has stopped being a thing, or at least has lessened in popularity and has become more frowned upon in wider fandom circles. I can appreciate a good snark, but there is a fine line between MST3K-esque snark and just being mean-spirited, and unfortunately so many fell into the latter. I remember roaming around those comms back then and had some laughs, but in hindsight it was just in poor taste. Many people took their comments too far.

So yeah. The internet is a lot worse in many ways, unfortunately. But I'm glad I can read YouTube comments now without losing my faith in humanity, I'm glad people aren't flamed on Ao3 as frequently as they were on fanfiction.net. (At least in my experience.)

Oh yeah, definitely.

[author_by_night]

It's funny you mention MSTK3k, because around that time I remember someone pointing out that the MSTK3K people "clearly LOVE the films they cover" (in contrast to what they were seeing online, I guess, I don't remember the context).

[silveradept]

It is better that the part of the Internet that decided to go after people personally moved mostly away from fans making fun of other fans and went to other places like the chans. It would have been better if the practice itself had disappeared completely, but people are going to people, unfortunately.