Am I a new member of the Cult of Mean?

[author_by_night]

So at a site, I read a fanfic that was... well, to say the least, it needed a lot of work. The chapters ranged from about two paragraphs to one page long, and the author really doesn't have a sense of punctuation.

So I left what I thought was a very constructively critical review.

Here's what I said:

Okay. This is promising, but there are a few problems. I really hope you understand that I am not trying to flame or be offensive - take these as tips.

First, you can't start your first story with "testing." It throws people off, you know? Plus, it's a little annoying when you expect to see a story and see "testing."

Second, you really need to write longer chapters. Some of them are a little too short, and could easily be merged. In fairness, a lot of people on this site post short chapters - even I used to - but it is easier to be drawn into a story with longer ones. Here's an idea - write your fic in Notepad, Word or another Word Processor, then post. That way, you won't run out of time.

Finally, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, you need to work on your punctuation a bit. All sentences end with a period, and there should be a comma before the last quotation. For instance:

"Yes," said Mark, laughing. "I agree."

I hope that helped. If you have any more questions, drop me a PM.

Well, apparently, I very much offended the person, as they replied:

Ok Ok I see what you mean OK BUT I AM DOING IT IN WORD BUT RATHER FEEL THAT I CANT TYPE SO MUCH SO SORTLY SO GO #%^#$^#@ $^&@^$ %&*&#$$#% [INFINITE]

And, naturally, their next reply was"beter now". (Written like that).

I'm not sure what I said that merited that response.

On one hand, I do see where I could've been a bit harsh. I mean, it was obviously a first fic, and truth be told, the site in question - ecfans.com - really isn't like Sugar Quill or Fiction Alley. The purpose isn't fanfiction - the fanfiction was a site add-on.

On the other hand, it is still public writing, and I feel you are expected to recieve any feedback.

Thoughts?

Comments

[bookbug87.livejournal.com]

Yikes! Don't worry, I don't think you were overly harsh- you politely pointed out some legitimate flaws in the story and the author clearly overreacted. Unfortunately it seems that some people just can't handle reviews that are anything other than those of the ZOMG-BRILLIANT-UPDATE-SOON!!! variety. If it makes you feel any better, you aren't alone - I came across this a few days ago over at fandom_wank: http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/914998.html

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Ah, GAFF Wank. Yeah. I actually went there for a while, but I don't go much anymore, a lot of them have begun to irritate me.

[stmargarets.livejournal.com]

I think the reaction of your writer shows more about them than it does about you. When you see a train wreck of fic - and that sounds like one - probably one - maybe two suggestions is about all the writer can handle. I mean, he/she wouldn't put it up unless they thought it was wonderful. So starting with punctuation would be a first step in criticsm - or perhaps backing slowly away . . . LOL. You did your good deed - who knows? Maybe when his/her ego is soothed by time, he/she will grow up and remember a few of your suggestions.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Yeah... perhaps, hehe.

[purple-ladybug1.livejournal.com]

I thought you very carefully and politely worded your concrit. He overreacted; don't worry about it.

[talimeeka.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, your review was good, very polite, and nice. Honestly I think I need to take a tip or two from you when it comes to critiquing. It's the person's problem, not yours. He/She'll have to learn to take criticism eventually, so better soon than later. If he/she took offense to that, they have a lot of learning to do.

No worries!

[tunxeh.livejournal.com]

Some people just aren't interested in concrit of any sort. I think that's more likely to be true when the crit is at the formatting/punctuation level as in this case: it's useful criticism, but it's also very easy to misread it as condescending and get angry about it. I guess you just have to shrug and move on. And my general impression of you is that you're almost always very much the opposite of mean.

[miss-sophia.livejournal.com]

Sounds like the person is either very young or on drugs to me.

Don't worry about it. I think a lot of people who post fan fics don't actually want to receive any criticism of their stories. They're just looking for praise. Those who are truly interested in the crafts of storytelling and writing, however, will most certainly appreciate politely given constructive criticism. Unfortunately, I think the author was one of the former.

You weren't at all harsh, and it was very nice of you to take the time to type up helpful comments. When I read something I don't like, I typically don't even bother writing anything up...which is something maybe I should change...?

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Sounds like the person is either very young or on drugs to me.

Their profile says they'll be fifteen in September, so while a bit young, you'd think old enough to handle criticism. I'm guessing he/she just doesn't want crit.

[miss-sophia.livejournal.com]

so while a bit young, you'd think old enough to handle criticism

I dunno. Fourteen-year-olds often have a lot of growing up to do. His/her response to you was still pretty darn immature, but...I dunno, I think a lot of people that age get defensive and wanky. Not everyone is like our wonderful younger Quillers.

But I still agree that the author probably wasn't looking for criticism, but rather praise and a self-esteem boost.

[jamc91.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of people that age get defensive and wanky.

Like me.

Erm, I mean...yeah. I wasn't too able to take criticism when I started out...and I still can't quite, as a matter of fact. I never flamed anyone though, so good for me. :D

[gunderpants.livejournal.com]

Welcome to the Cult, babe.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Yay!

[h311ybean]

Like a lot of the people who've commented here, I don't think your review was mean. In fact, it was polite and you did try to say something nice about what you read. It seems that the writer was just overly defensive.

[shalli.livejournal.com]

I'm actually studying professional editing at the moment, and one of the first things that has been drummed into us is that authors are irrational and often over-react to the slightest creative critisism. Best bet, I've been told, is to be ultra polite and make everything a suggestion and never, ever, so much as consider telling the author that they are an idiot and their spelling is the most dodgy thing you've seen in your entire life. I've heard of professional writers have hissy fits and kicking editors doors because a tiny mistake was pointed out. I find it interesting, compared to my experience with betaing, where people are quite happy to say "wrong".

That said, as everyone else has acknowledged, you did write it very politely. Unfortunately, when someone writes something, they are making themselves vulnerable, and most people find it very difficult to accept that the work they've put so much effort into is subpar, and react really badly to anyone who points it out to them, regardless of how it is put.

[jamc91.livejournal.com]

Seriously? About the professional authors thing? In that case, I am going to revise my 'Possible Future Careers' list. o_O

[shalli.livejournal.com]

Absolutely serious. Not all of them, of course, but enough that someone who has been in the industry for, as she puts it, 'over twenty five years' will say that it is the norm.

Were you thinking of being an author, or an editor?

[jamc91.livejournal.com]

...

*crosses 'editor' off list; highlights 'author'*

:D

Both, actually. I don't know. Erm. Yeah. *shrug*

[shalli.livejournal.com]

Sounds like me when I was younger *grins* Good luck with it. And if you do become and author, be one of the good ones who takes the suggestions without flying of the handles, and considers them, whether you take them or dismiss them in the end. I know your editor will appreciate it.

[jamc91.livejournal.com]

What? No way. Why do you think I highlighted 'author'? :P

Weeell, I'll probably dismiss most suggestions anyway. And if they should happen to find any spelling/grammar mistakes, I will take a gun and shoot them, so I won't have to shoot myself. :D

[shalli.livejournal.com]

Editors of the world beware ;)

[jamc91.livejournal.com]

^_^ I know. Now all I need to do is get a gun, of course...

[ziasudra.livejournal.com]

It depends on how concrit is phrased -- that's the part you can control, since it isn't possible to control the other person's feelings and reactions.

I tend to be more blunt with people I beta for regularly. We're pretty much friends, and as a result, I more or less know their personality, and how they would interpret my concrit. I know it's different with each person, but the concrit you left would be along the line of something I'd write only to my regular authors. Polite, yes (very), but I still perceive it as a bit on the blunt side.

Now, I know that plenty of people hate circumlocution, but I find that most authors usually appreciate roundabout concrit, or concrit that aren't phrased as concrit.

So I might phrase your first point as something like this:
I enjoyed your story -- it's a really promising start! For a first story, this doesn't read like a test to me at all. In fact, you might even gain more readers if "testing" isn't in the story heading, since there are long-time readers on this site who shy away from trying out new authors, but I think your story is worth getting them to give it a try.

Something like that :)

It's the classic "I statement," "you statement" phrasing that they taught me in school. Conveying the same thing in first person is much less blunt than second person, however polite a second-person critique is otherwise phrased:
I noticed you have really short chapters. You know, I wouldn't mind reading longer ones if you feel inspired to write more;
I noticed several of your sentences have punctuation errors -- not the end of the world, I just happen to be one of those people who notices technical details like that. Etc.

Of course, in the end you might still get a flame-y response. And really, there wasn't any reason for you to warrant such a CAPSLOCK!reply to begin with. The person was being immature.

Although it seems like the person did think over your concrit. "Beter now" is a sign that at least (grumpily) s/he's heard you ;)


(I should probably qualify all this by saying that I'm extremely non-confrontational in writing and especially in speech, as in, I'd score 0/10 or 1/10 on personality tests that would have a "confrontation" category. So do keep my non-confrontational lens perspective in mind :))

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Interesting points! I'm not sure what to make of the "beter now", though. If they'd thought stuff over, why not edit the post? It's just strange.

But perhaps I could've refrained from the first part, about not putting in "testing". But the rest... I don't know, when you only have a page as a chapter, you should have a reason.

[tipsytoe.livejournal.com]

I think seeing that it was the person's first fanfic, they really didn't expect such a detailed review. I guess, onn his/her part, he/she should be humble and accept any form of criticism.

Oh well, writers. It never benefits on both sides, really.

[ex-jo-blogs.livejournal.com]

I thought your review was fine, not harsh but direct and constructive. As others have said, you can't control other people's responses. If they aren't appreciative of a thoughtful review that someone has put effort into, then you're not to blame. Having said that, it seems they were aware afterwards that they did something wrong, so I think it would have been 'beter' if they'd given you a real apology. That'll be my inner critic coming out then :D

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the "beter" seemed a bit last minute to me. Oh, in case she decides to bite, I'll add that in, you know? Not really, "wow, I'm sorry, that was sort of harsh."

And I LOVE your icon!

[rocknroll5s.livejournal.com]

wow. I started to laugh at the author's inability to accept constructed criticism.....

[airriphlyer.livejournal.com]

*snort* That was idiotic. Not you, of course. Your comment was fine, legimete, constructive criticism. THe reply was kind of... okay very... childish. *eyeroll*

[zarafa.livejournal.com]

ecfans isn't for writing advice... its for warm fuzzies. few people there really appreciate any sort of writing advice or constructive criticism regardless of how atrocious their spelling, grammar, and sentence structure are. i wouldn't take it personally but i also wouldn't offer advice there unless specifically asked for it. if its who i think you're talking about, she's gone off on others who've commented on her lack of grammar.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

ecfans isn't for writing advice... its for warm fuzzies.

Good point. In fact, I don't think I ever really got any heavy crit when I used to write there, except from one member, and looking back, I needed some pretty heavy criticism. It isn't like I didn't used to do one page chapters with horrible grammar. And I still proofread my works, go to a site where we're assigned a beta reader... and appreciate that the site does it.


But still, I think people need to realize that not everyone at a site is going to just smile and say "perfect" when it's not, no matter how nice we are.

[jan-aq.livejournal.com]

Constructive criticism requires extreme tact and courteousness. It also requires that you write twice as many positive things than negative.

When people are called upon something they did, their first instinct is to get angry if they aren't socialized enough to get it and the critique isn't soft enough. :\

Guess it just wasn't to be this time.