Why does it still bug? (Public Post)

[author_by_night]

Another Harry Potter related post, although applies to all mediums and fictional universes in which one finds themselves invested.

Twelve years ago, I went through a terrible loss. I was mostly just shocked; I didn't really process it until the next morning, when I cried into my pillow. Mostly I was numb. Then sad. Then angry.

Linda (lindalupos), one of my best friends, signed onto MSN Messenger. It was like finding someone you love in the crowd following something terrible. I IMed her immediately, and all I said was "Linda..."

In response, Linda said, "I hate her."

"Her" was JK Rowling. She'd killed off our favorite character. After giving him a... very WTF-filled story arc in Deathly Hallows.



As I've alluded to before, and as many of you will remember, I was a huge Remus fangirl and an ardent Remus/Tonks shipper. Ironically before HBP, I touted it as "my one non-canon ship." I had other ships I liked that weren't strictly canon (or strictly canon yet), but I never went out of my way to read them or talk about them the way I did Remus/Tonks. Remus/Sirius, for instance - I read some fics with them, I liked the idea, but it wasn't like they were my OTP. Remus and Tonks, however, were my OTP. Not to mention two of my favorite characters completely independent of the ship itself. I loved Tonks from the moment she bumped her way into OoTP.

Therefore, I've had to actively stop myself from talking about them. Which doesn't always work. Linda and I often end up talking about them one way or another, and we talk all the time. Last time it was over dinner, and I was good about stopping myself. I went "anyway" very quickly and started talking about... I don't even know what. :P The point is, even though I'm sure a lot of things happened that week, it's the death of two fictional characters that has stayed with me all of these years later.

I was listening to The Real Weird Sisters podcast (highly recommend, by the way, at least so far), and they're covering DH now. I decided to torture myself and listen to the chapter covering Remus. Once again, I had... feels. But why does it still matter so much? Why have I had to write fics to really reconcile a fictional event?

Well, I think it's in part because I had an emotional investment in the characters. I'd followed them for seven years, effectively; I knew what I wanted for them, and it wasn't that. Sirius's death really upset me for similar reasons, and that was after only three years. But... I at least understood why Sirius's end had come the way that it did. Not at first - definitely not at first. I was pretty much breaking Dumbledore's things along with Harry in the former's office. But I came to the realization that his story was necessarily tragic. By the end of Deathly Hallows, I also kind of realized... maybe it was better. Can you imagine how he would have felt if he'd thought Harry had died at Voldemort's hands toward the end? If Remus and Tonks had still been killed off? While I think a Sirius survival would have been interesting in some ways, I saw how the ending he got was a textual must. Remus and Tonks, meanwhile, got such a clunky storyline, and the point of their death had to be explained in an interview, where we learn that JKR just wanted Teddy to be a war orphan. But we never see Teddy as a war orphan.

Don't get me wrong - I know the point of deaths during a war scene being, well, pointless is the point. However, with the other characters, we at least get some relative closure, even if it's not nice closure. Sirius dies doing what he'd wanted to do all along. Fred reconciles with Percy and goes laughing. Colin's death isn't really given closure, but he's also a more minor character. His death doesn't need a grand statement. Remus and Tonks may have been background characters, but they were pretty significant even to Harry - especially as they ended up taking so much space in the last three books. Pre-OoTP, I could see the rationale for Remus being given a more offhand death. (Linda, other Remus fans, stop screaming at me. You know what I'm saying. Right?) However, Remus goes from being more along the lines of McGonagall to being along the lines of Neville and Luna.

Tonks... kind of fades in and out, which is my other issue. What the hell happened to her character? She was kickass in OoTP. I actually got her in HBP, maybe because I'd foreseen the breakdown - I don't know, I somehow knew that she was going to run out of hoops to jump throw and hit rock bottom. However, we never see her rise up. We never see her use her powers, even. They're more of an accessory. And for all we hear about Remus's fears that he'll ruin her life by existing, other than "I've told you a million times", we actually... don't get much of her POV. My sense with both Remus and Tonks is that JK Rowling had more she wanted to do with them, but just ran out of time and space. Which made for a very clunky narrative, and their offhand deaths more of a punch in the gut.

Okay, that sucks, but why do I still care?

Well, first of all, I think that any big disappointment surrounding something we cared about stays with us. We all have "real life" stories where whatever happened wasn't particularly Earth shattering, except it was to us in the moment - and part of us still, despite the many years that have passed, can't quite shake it. Given how much fiction can mean to us, maybe it's not so shocking. I've had lots of conversations with people who are still angry over the way a book, a movie, a show ended. Especially something long running - you get so invested, and then... everything you felt the narrative had been building to just changes on you. It's upsetting if you love fiction. Also, for me, Harry Potter wasn't really "just" a book series, and Remus and Tonks weren't just characters. I made dear friends through the Marauders, through Remus/Tonks. I was already sad over the books ending, never mind losing characters who'd meant so much to me under such a dissatisfying light.

In addition to sentiments, I was creatively involved in Remus and Tonks both as a couple and as individual characters. I wrote and completed a novel-length fanfic based around Tonks, although interestingly, it wasn't Remus/Tonks. My ficverse would later have multilayered backstories. I was in a lot of RPGs involving Remus and/or Tonks, whether they were a couple, just friends, even paired with other people. For instance, in one RPG, Tonks and Percy were paired together and I've always half-shipped them ever since then. :) So even though Remus and Tonks were in no way my characters, I think I did feel a little bit of ownership over them. It's like having a niece and nephew you watch all the time, and love so much, then your sister and brother-in-law announce they're moving across the country. They're not actually taking your babies away from you - they were never your babies to begin with. However, you took them to the playground all the time, and something has changed. It just isn't the same.

So there you have it. That is why 34 year old me is back on the bed with my 22 year old self, consoling her over our favorite fictional werewolf and favorite fictional Auror. Go watch Buffy, honey. Go ship Willow/Tara -

Oh, FFS.

Comments

[orangerful]

I felt like a lot of the deaths in the final book didn't help move the plot forward or serve the story. (the death of Tara was super-shitty, especially now that I am aware of the trope it fell into BUT it did move the plot forward, creating evil Willow. Doesn't mean it was the right choice, but without that event, we don't have the Season 6 finale)

And I know, it was war (WWII), soldiers die and are not celebrated etc. but it felt cheap that it kind of happened off screen so it felt like a disservice to the characters. Especially for adult fans who might have been more invested in them than the kids who only focused on the Trio.

At least the movie version has the wonderful Glow-Up that is Neville.

[author_by_night]

y. (the death of Tara was super-shitty, especially now that I am aware of the trope it fell into BUT it did move the plot forward, creating evil Willow. Doesn't mean it was the right choice, but without that event, we don't have the Season 6 finale)

Right, and I do think that finale was powerful. And overall, as I've said before I actually never minded the Dark Willow arc, I just didn't love the drug metaphor arc. I think it makes sense that not only losing someone again, but being unable to bring her back this time, would be the thing that pushes Willow over the edge. Not that I love it, I don't, but I can see why they made that decision.

but it felt cheap that it kind of happened off screen so it felt like a disservice to the characters.

Exactly, and they weren't one-off characters, they had become significant to the story. (As poorly as you could argue - as I would definitely argue - it was constructed.)

[rhoda_rants]

Didn't even have to click through on this to guess it was about Lupin. Reactions vary on which of the many (so many) deaths in Deathly Hallows rankled a given reader the most, but for me, it was the same. It feels almost like this book, the ending specifically, is when some of the fandom started to distrust Rowling. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do remember a lot of hyper-critical reactions talking about why she didn't need to do things this way.

I never really shipped Remus/Tonks (I was always Remus/Sirius), but once it happened, I was like, "Huh. Okay, I can see it," and just sort of moved on. That said, Tonks was VERY unevenly handled after Order of the Phoenix. Like you said, it seemed like JK just didn't know what to do with her after that.

[author_by_night]

Oh, no, fandom always distrusted JK Rowling from her very first interviews. People got on JKR for everything, even pretty small things that were seriously not that big of a deal. Not just the books as a text, JK Rowling herself. I actually used to defend her a lot on LJ; unfortunately... well, you've seen my other posts. It's gotten harder in more recent years, let's just say that. Even beyond the more legitimate complaints, which have always existed as well, JK Rowling has had a very complicated relationship with fandom. Everyone had their own "headcanons" (although I don't think that was a word back then?), their own fanon, their own expectations... it was impossible for her to please even without her flaws as a writer.

But I do think you're right that even people who were always dismissive of the pettier stuff (basically "she ruined my headcanon/fanfic, she's a poo-head" or... words significantly harsher than "poo-head") started to see where her writing had failed, beyond more minor criticisms here and there. A lot of even her defenders felt betrayed. And yeah, even in that context there were definitely people who went overboard - certain fans of Snape (Snapewives) seemed to believe she'd literally murdered the guy. No. She wrote a story arc and they didn't like it, which was their opinion and that's totally fine - but that doesn't make her a murderer. However, a lot of us noted the flaws in her writing, and again, it's not like we hadn't noticed other flaws before.

Remus/Sirius was more the other way around for me, where I said "huh, I can see it" when I came across it in fic and discussion. If it had happened in canon, I would've totally been on board.

I think Tonks should have been introduced earlier, honestly. This may have given JKR more time to flesh her out. But I don't know how she would have been relevant to their lives before that. In a lot of ways, I think Fleur got more of the storyline Tonks was meant to have, going from being perceived as one thing, then that being subverted, and the story carrying on from there. Which I don't object to, I love Fleur's arc, but I can see where that took up space Tonks might have flourished in.

[rhoda_rants]

LOL--yeah, I do remember a few people Personally Hurt and Offended whenever something happened that they didn't like, but I mostly ignored them. Because, come on. There's a difference between that and getting sloppy and rushed, which is how the last book felt, especially in the last half.

I totally defended her too. Because, she's still a great writer. She had an idea that spoke to a lot of people, and still does, twenty years after the fact. I'm amazed the whole series holds together as well as it does. Clunky ending aside.

It's this more recent "Let me comb over ALL OF THE THINGS forever until everyone's sick of it!" trend I don't care for. (Related: I tried to watch Crimes of Grindlewald earlier this week and fell asleep.) That, and some less savory opinions that have nothing to do with her writing, and her repeated missteps with trying to work minority representation into these later works and getting it VERY wrong.

In a lot of ways, I think Fleur got more of the storyline Tonks was meant to have, going from being perceived as one thing, then that being subverted, and the story carrying on from there.

Oooh, that's a good idea. But yeah, Tonks would've had to come into the story sooner for that to work. However, Luna showed up at the same time, and I love every single thing about Luna, so. *shrug*

[author_by_night]

LOL--yeah, I do remember a few people Personally Hurt and Offended whenever something happened that they didn't like, but I mostly ignored them. Because, come on.

Yeah, and I felt like some people basically wanted what the books were never going to be.
One fandom friend of mine in particular basically just hated the books on the whole. She preferred fanon. And you know what? That's fine, but that's not JK Rowling's fault.

I totally defended her too. Because, she's still a great writer

I agree 100%.


That, and some less savory opinions that have nothing to do with her writing, and her repeated missteps with trying to work minority representation into these later works and getting it VERY wrong.


Yeah.

I honestly think that people who have complaints now are separate from people who had complaints in 2002 on some level, even if some are consistent. For example, even as a JKR defender, there were things about the books I didn't love and still don't. Even then, though, I held JKR accountable for them as a writer, not a person, and I acknowledged that for the most part, her books were pretty damn good.

However, Luna showed up at the same time, and I love every single thing about Luna, so. *shrug*

Yeah, but Luna has the advantage of being at school with Harry, whereas Tonks wasn't. Still, she could've been around during GoF, for instance.

[rhoda_rants]

I honestly think that people who have complaints now are separate from people who had complaints in 2002 on some level, even if some are consistent.

Very true. Although I might as well mention I didn't interact with the greater fandom, at least online, that much. There was a homophobic slant to some of those forums and it just . . . yeah. SO I did a lot of my fangirling either in meatspace, or in a vacuum. The "Where are all the Horcruxes?!?" part of fandom I was there for; the "Let's list all the ways JK is CANCELLED FOREVER!" part, not so much.

But yeah, critiquing her as a writer never translated to defaming her character. I didn't like how she handled Slytherin House on the whole, for example. "All the evil kids get sorted here!" Even back when I thought I was Ravenclaw, I had issues with that. Half-Blood Prince corrected that a little, but only a little. (Tom Felton being adorable and a surprisingly nuanced and talented actor helped to, but that's not about writing, heh.)

Bringing Tonks in for GoF would've been great. It's a perfect setup for some of the other Ministry folks to be around at Hogwarts, and like as a new Auror it could be a training ground for her, like as extra security or something. OH, she could even get accidentally overheard by Rita Skeeter talking about how Barty Crouch has been missing so much work lately, and not the garbled defending-his-every-move thing that Percy does! (I could do with less Percy, not because his estrangement from the Weasleys doesn't work in the story, but because I . . . just don't like him.) I can't remember how old she's supposed to be--isn't Order of the Phoenix her fist mission?--but there's nothing wrong with aging her up one year.

[marzipan77]

I nod along as I read this as well as the two replies you'd received when I logged on. I may have begun to mistrust Rowling before DH, during the hapless mess of HBP, actually, but so much of DH was a total, well, I won't say betrayal of the fans, but it was sloppy. Slapdash. And the way she treated Tonks and REmus?? Horrible.

There was no point. And that's the worst way for a character to die. Remus, Tonks- both pointless deaths. They didn't move the plot along, they didn't turn the tide of battle, they didn't slap the reader in the face and cause us to gasp - not the way Sirius and even Snape's deaths were treated. They happened off-screen. Horrible. As I writer I know I have to kill of favorite characters, but I also know that I MUST make their deaths count. Make them absolutely necessary.

We are fanfic people, so, of course we care about these characters. It's kind of a given, a necessary part of our psyche. I will never be less than bitter about Cordelia's "character arc" in Angel. (It's hard to even type that) Or DiNozzo's constant belittling and off-hand character assassination in NCIS.

For me, Rowling lost my unfailing devotion when she tried to have her cake and eat it, too. Would Harry live or die? The fans were teetering on the edge of that knife blade until DH came out. Instead of making a choice, she had Harry live and die. Trying to please everyone. With little to no backstory/foreshadowing/build up of the Deathly Hallows to explain it. Heck, they never entered the narrative until the last book.

But, Remus? His death, and Tonks', is irredeemable.

[author_by_night]

The problem is that the Hallows was a subplot that turned into a key player, in a way that should have been established earlier. I believe that Jo really made up everything as she went along - while I expect certain elements of world building to change, I really don't think she had much planned at all, which meant things weren't as built up as they could or should have been.

I never saw Harry almost dying as Jo having her cake and eating it, though, I have to admit.



We are fanfic people, so, of course we care about these characters. It's kind of a given, a necessary part of our psyche.

Good point! I really love that. And it's true, even with stories I don't write fanfic for - I still care deeply. I was never as into Angel as I was Buffy, but the whole Cordelia thing just pissed me off. Then for Fred to have, IMHO, a similar fate? I think part of the problem with Angel is that it became, in small part, Buffy for guys. Don't get me wrong, I also think it was much deeper than that, I think there is a huge philosophical element that can't be overlooked - not to mention that it's a completely different show. (Arguably an entirely different universe, even as the universes overlap. If they didn't, I could easily see it as a darker timeline, even.) I appreciate AtS's intelligence and ambition. I don't, however, appreciate just how grimdark it got, nor the way the female characters were, in my view, kind of discarded. At least Fred was (literally) replaced by Illyria and not a male God, but still.

[braveheartlove]

I'll admit that never got into Harry Potter enough to see all that you did Author_By_Night, though I was quite sad when Remus died. It always felt it a bit wrong that Harry lost most of those he could rely upon. I couldn't see any particular reason for Remus's death especially. It felt like just a way to make the ending that more heart rending. And that, is never a good reason.

That said, you, well as the other commenters here, have given me food for thought. It has been a long time since I have read such a discussion on Harry Potter, and I have enjoyed it.

[author_by_night]

It felt like just a way to make the ending that more heart rending. And that, is never a good reason.


Nope.

I'm glad that you enjoyed it!

[chocolatepot]

Yeah, I'm never going to be over it. I read so much fanfiction these days!

I can't remember if I've recced them to you before, but TT Bret does a very good Sirius and Remus, and they have a friend, Jess, who plays Tonks for them. If you want some good angst, they did a fantastic set of RPs, essentially a short movie, called Never Doubt that is well worth the watch.

[author_by_night]

First, what does your userpic reference? It sounds vaguely familiar.

If I ever run into JK Rowling, I just know I'm immediately barraging her with complaints about her handling of Remus and Tonks. :P

I'll have to check out the tumblr page!

[chocolatepot]

Back when the hms_stfu was a thing and people who had previously loved the books were mad that their ships weren't being made canon and started picking apart every little thing about the books, someone complained that it was wrong of Dumbledore to have left baby Harry on a doorstep where he would be "in very real danger from foxes." Someone who has since fallen off the face of fandom immortalized it in icon form! (She also made a great "sorry, that's pants" icon from some other wank.)