So what's the deal with wizard schooling, NEWTS, and getting ahead jobwise?

[author_by_night]

I've noticed a lot of kerlfluffle over the fact that Harry became an Auror after not having technically finished Hogwarts. However, here's the thing - JKR has stated on her site that wizards and witches don't have to go.

Am I the only one who took it to mean that some parents teach magic on their own?

I always figured that an alternative NEWT was provided for those students, somewhere in the MInistry of Magic. Or that they can take a special exam for whatever career they may want to pursue, which might be what the NEWT involves anyway. (They do seem to already be picking out careers in book five.) Plus, there is no University for wizards, although some may choose to go to muggle universities. So why couldn't they just recieve a test? And I feel Harry learned enough through defeating Voldemort... heck, he might not even have had to take the NEWT, although I bet he still did. ;)

My other question is... I was thinking about Mary Sue fics, and the ones where Mary Sue comes to Hogwarts from America. And then a horrible thought came to me...

Is it canon?!

But seriously, I wonder how much wizarding schools do merge. I don't think it's common, but JKR did say they went abroad, and Draco was going to attend Durmstrang. We also know that Eloise, Seamus, Padma and Parvati were going to leave Hogwarts - would one of them have gone to Durmstrang or Beauxbatons?  Not to mention territories that still belong to other countries - do those kids go to the wizarding schools, or have their own little schools?

... and why I think up all these things at seven a.m., I do not know. But there you have it.

Thoughts?

Comments

[linda-lupos.livejournal.com]

Remus also mentioned that parents could chose to have their kids homeschooled or send abroad (but that they now couldn't anymore because going to Hogwarts was now compulsory). So it's definitely canon, even for those who only read the books.
And besides, I can definitely see the more Pureblood-surpremacy wizards deciding to have their kids be taught at home, perhaps by a private tutor (how 19th century!) instead of having them socialise with halfbloods or - ghasp! - muggleborns. Compare fundamentalist christians in America. ;) (Or even here in the Netherlands!)

Yeah, there are no wizarding universities. I'm getting the feeling that learning an occupation is very much an on-the-job thing (that's nice if you want to be a teacher O_o). Bit medieval really! Or perhaps there are no wizarding universities in the UK but there are abroad? I do wonder where, say, Madam Pomfrey or the healers at St Mungo's learned their healing. Wouldn't be something I'd assign a random 17-year old. And Hogwarts doesn't have any Healing Magic classes, does it..?

I suppose American transfers are possible! Although maybe not with third-years because it's so far away. :p But seventh-years who want the experience... sure, why not? You'd have to work something out with the NEWTs though...

How does homeschooling work in America, anyway? I know some people homeschool their pre-Highschool kids and then let them go to Highschool, or even teach their highschoolers and then let them go to college. Are there any standarised tests or a standarised curriculum they have to keep to? Because that could also work for British magical kids. The only problem would be, of course, having a kid who's interested in or talented at a subject the parent doesn't know, but that also goes for a Muggle kid who's mightily interested in, say, Chemistry, but is homeschooled by a Chemistry-impaired parent.

Yep, homeschooling is definitely possible. I just think most parents send their kids to Hogwarts because it's easier. :)

[katieay.livejournal.com]

Do we know for sure that Harry didn't finish Hogwarts?

[dirigibleplums.livejournal.com]

This isn't terribly on topic, I'm afraid, but this reminded me of how bothered I was by the GoF movie depicting Durmstrang as all-boys and Beauxbatons as all-girls. I guess Eastern Europe is exclusively male and France is made up entirely of women, veela, and Mr. Delacour! Learn something new every day.

More on-topic: perhaps I was reading in, but I got the idea that there was special training for certain careers, particularly in established institutions like the Ministry or in Healing. So, the Auror Training Camp in fanon is pulled from comments that several people have made, particularly Tonks about nearly failing "stealth and tracking" and how well she did in disguises. I'd imagine that Healing draws on information learned in Potions, Herbology, and maybe Charms, Defense, and Arithmancy for something like an internship, or whatever. It'd be fun to see an internship-focused Healing-training fic. (Though I don't know who the characters would be).

[chocolatepot.livejournal.com]

I think Jo said in the online chat that he went back and did seventh year with Ginny. I think.

[trude.livejournal.com]

the Auror Training Camp in fanon
It isn't fanon. In chapter 29 of OotP, "Careers Advice" McGonagall tells Harry that he has to get at least 5 NEWTS with good marks, undertake a number of tests and then study/train an additional three years to become and auror.

I could see Harry getting accepted into auror training directly after DH because he's, well, Harry Potter. (Ron getting accepted without NEWTS is harder to believe.) Though I'm not sure Rowling ever said that the Trio didn't go back to Hogwarts for their seventh year, as far as I can remember she stumbled on/glossed over that subject. It's probably best to take anything she says in situations when she can't double-check her answers with a grain of salt.

[talimeeka.livejournal.com]

My other question is... I was thinking about Mary Sue fics, and the ones where Mary Sue comes to Hogwarts from America. And then a horrible thought came to me...

Is it canon?!

It probably could be canon...if the girl wasn't a veela/vampire that was smarter than Hermione.

[tdu000.livejournal.com]

I presumed that training for most magical professions worked as apprenticeships. I get the impression that thses have never been as big in the US as they used to be in Britain. The apprentice gets quite low pay, has to do a lot of dogs-bodying but after the term of apprenticeship leaves, or is given a real job, with a recognised professional qualification. In which case, it would be up to the employer to decide if the witch or wizard was suitable irrespective of their qualifications. If they thought you were the right person for the job, it wouldn't matter if you flunked out of schoool.

Even "white collar" professions often worked like that. My sister-in-law is a registered accountant without even going to university. All her examinations were done whilst she was working for an accountancy firm. I suspect that she would need a degree nowadays but in the 1980s this was still possible. Even University places weren't offered on a flat score in my day. You went for an interview and if they wanted you they would give you an offer that was quite low. A friend of mine only needed to get two 'B's and a 'C' to do medecine, where the standard requirement was at least an 'A' and two 'B's and ofter higher. Of course she was a straight 'A" student so it didn't matter but it shows that British universities had a degree of flexibility that I don't think American ones ever have.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can also see Harry being accepted for defeating Voldemort and all. I mean, that's no small thing, and it'd be clear there was a lot of magic involved. He didn't just get lucky. Ron might have that same advantage, really. But I bet they were still administered NEWTS.

And yes, I always thought training was canon, though whether it's camps or just one-on-one training is unclear.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah, that part was a joke. :) And I bet there are fics like that that are well done - it's just that a lot of the time, they aren't.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Well, here you can actually work your way up that way too, but it can be a bit harder, and I don't think a lot of empolyers do it.

And yes, there's definitely apprentinceship in the wizarding world - look at Percy and Crouch in GoF. (Which suddenly seems so long ago!)

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure that's just a fanon notion, but I'll have to check.

I just don't see why Harry, Ron and Hermione would return for their last year; learn DADA when they've just done something whoever teaches it had never done? Deal with people asking them awkward questions? Plus, I think they'll want to take a nice, healthy break from everything, somehow.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I think the movie jumped lengths to add in stereotypes, to be honest: Easteren European Men with broad shoulders, furt coats, doing cartwheels across the floor, and beautiful french girls who blow birds out of their hands. Blech. I always insert girls/guys respectively.

[psychic-serpent.livejournal.com]

But it's still a logical notion. We know that both Ron and Harry became Aurors. We know that getting NEWTs in certain subjects is a requirement to be admitted to the training program. Therefore there is no reason to believe that they didn't fulfill the requirements. JKR didn't say that they became Aurors without doing what ever other Auror ever did to gain admittance to the program, therefore it is logical to assume that they did what was necessary. On top of that, I can't see Hermione passing up the chance to take her NEWTs with no Dark Lords getting in the way now.

It seems to me that the three of them would have welcomed the normalcy of returning to school to finish, and Harry would certainly find Ginny's presence there appealing. This one, to me, is a no-brainer.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know, I'm just presenting an alternative possibility. And like I said, not every student went to Hogwarts, so they may have been able to take the NEWT at the Ministry of Magic. But it is also perfectly logical that they went back, and I do see your point about normalcy.

[princessdot.livejournal.com]

Many union shops have apprenticeships here. You can begin at a low pay and low skill level and work your way up. Taking course or passing tests the union requires along the way.

Also? see things like insurance agents. You have to get certain certificates and the like.

[princessdot.livejournal.com]

Aye, I was going to mention apprenticeships as well. I can certainly see where the Wizarding world was set up in that way. Offering vocational courses in the different guilds [for wont of a better term].

[trude.livejournal.com]

And yes, I always thought training was canon, though whether it's camps or just one-on-one training is unclear.
Probably one-on-one training, since they (according to McG again) only accepts students when someone who's good enough applies. Though I guess there is some kind of syllabus.

Anyway, I went to Bloomsbury's website to re-check what Rowling actually said and here it is:

Blodeuwedd: Hi jk, first of all thank you for all the books I have enjoyed each and every one of them could you tell us what professions Harry, Hermione, Ron, Ginny and Luna go on to have did the trio do their final year at school and take their newts?

J.K. Rowling: Thank you! I’ve already answered about Hermione. Kingsley became permanent Minister for Magic, and naturally he wanted Harry to head up his new Auror department. Harry did so (just because Voldemort was gone, it didn’t mean that there would not be other Dark witches and wizards in the coming years). Ron joined George at Weasleys’ Wizarding Wheezes, which became an enormous money-spinner... After a few years as a celebrated player for the Holyhead Harpies, Ginny retired to have her family and to become the Senior Quidditch correspondent at the Daily Prophet!

So she never actually says whether they went back to Hogwarts for year seven or not. (I don't think I've seen her answer a similar question somewhere else, but she might have done that, of course)