Draco ships and why I don't get many of the more popular ones

[author_by_night]

Note: This isn't an attack on the ships themselves, nor the shippers. It is simply my thoughts on the ship. That said - feel free to tell me if you disagree (or feel I was harsh).

In this essay, I'm going to focus on the two most popular Draco ships: Hermione/Draco and Harry/Draco. (Though I'm not sure if Hermione/Draco's as popular as it used to be).

The main problem with those two, in my opinion, is that they have both been hurt by Draco immensley.

According to Draco's current philosophy, Hermione is a no-good "Mudblood," with no-good parents. She shouldn't be allowed a wand - and perhaps not even allowed to exist.

Lily Potter, Harry's mother, was also supposedly a no-good "Mudblood", whose death was well deserved. She and James asked for it, and Draco has not hesitated to remind Harry of this now and then.

For Hermione/Draco, the counter-argument to that I often see is, "but he'll be redeemed!" With Harry/Draco, it's often "they work past that."

There are people who will work past that, yes. But again, two issues arise.

First, Hermione takes pride in who she is, and Harry's parents are the meaning of his life. They died to save him. So I don't think either of them are going to get over that, especially Harry. His parents are his world.And Hermione, while she doesn't seem particularly close with her parents, does seem to think highly of them. People who have stable relationships with their parents aren't going to date men who would gladly have witnessed their murders - even if they've "come clean." That's not something you'll forget.

Second, Hermione and Harry are two of the most unforgiving people we see in canon, except for Sirius and Snape. Harry pretty much stalked, and even nearly murdered (albeit on accident) Draco throughout HBP. Hermione, to her defense, didn't take part in the stalking, but she led Umbridge into the forest (which, while that was self defense, was still disturbing because of the lack of fear later. Nearly killing someone isn't something to shrug off, no matter what).

Even if Draco did redeem himself - and to be honest, after HBP I'm not sure he won't - he isn't going to ever be a nice person, and I definitely don't ever see him being forgiven enough by Harry and Hermione for a stable romance.

 

 

 

Comments

[linda-lupos.livejournal.com]

Good essay. You're right, a romance with Draco would take an enormous leap for both Harry and Hermione. It MIGHT be possible in the hands of a very good writer, and if the story's set several years from now when both are adults, but even then it'd take a lot of forgiving and changing on Draco's part - I just can't see Hermione and Harry changing to Draco's ways of thinking.

[purple-ladybug1.livejournal.com]

I have read some very believable Draco/Hermione fics, and with recent essays on Draco's character, I do believe they are entirely possible. (Although, with R/Hr confirmed, you'd have to deal with that, which could be tricky). They all boiled down to Draco not really believing what he said. He was just spouting off what his dad had always said. (Look at the DS for a link to the essay/discussion on Draco). One fic had Draco sort of being a double agent like Snape (Roman Holiday, witchfics.org, by Anna). The other had him delaying actual involvement with the Dark Lord, using the excuse that he would be more useful if he was considered on the good side. Then eventually openly defying Voldemort. Also, in this one (can't recall title), he was Head Boy and Hermione was Head Girl, and he started the year off being polite to her.

This is sort of jumbled thoughts, sorry. But if Ron was handled well, I think Draco/Hermione is plausible. (Oh, and those two fics were pre-HBP, so R/Hr wasn't canon, but the authors still handled Ron pretty well).

[jan-aq.livejournal.com]

What about Draco/Ginny?

[abbers44.livejournal.com]

I don't totally get Hermione/Draco, but... *whips out H/D flag*

I understand what you mean, but I think that's a big part of the allure of H/D. It isn't easy, it isn't pretty, but it's there. The most popular H/D fics are the ones that hurt to read. There's very little popular H/D fluff out there, if you look.

After OotP, there was a whole freakout from the H/D fandom because it seemed like Draco didn't matter to Harry at all. But the thing is, and as we can see in HBP, Draco matters so much to Harry. Harry needs that consistancy he finds in Draco, the voice of that one person who doesn't regard him as a hero.

And yes, Harry isn't one to forgive and forget and neither is Draco - Harry denies him friendship and look what happens. But that's the beauty of it all. It isn't easy, it isn't safe, it isn't that warm, comforting idea of love. It's dangerous and impossible and angry and that's what makes it work.

I think bookshop said it best: Shipping H/D is about stripping prejudice and preconceptions away until you are left with a Harry who is willing to see Draco as Draco wants him to see him.

You're right, it isn't stable, but that's why it's so great.

[norwegianblue47.livejournal.com]

Well, I think both ships would require a big personality change from both people involved. I never did get Draco/Hermione or Draco/Ginny. Generally, both fics make my brain confused with the universe. But Harry/Draco is one of the few slash ships with fics where both characters aren't completely OoC. I'm not defending it. 99 times out of a 100 I'd rather read Harry/Ginny, but there are fics out there with Harry/Draco where if the author is really good, it actually works. Granted, most of these were writtn pre-HBP. However, I did see some stuff in HBP that suggests that Draco could, possibly, (minute chance in hell, really, but it's there), that he could be redeemed.

[maplesugrrrl.livejournal.com]

I apologise for interjecting with a blatant pimp so please forgive me, but I co-moderate the dmhgficexchange and for our current exchange we have 126 participants, and considering our previous two exchanges have hovered at about 80 participants, this is a pretty big leap.

Draco/Hermione tends to go in waves, but I think that the 'ship is sailing pretty strongly if I may use the most overused cliche ever. The thing I have most noticed is that there is usually a huge influx of "type" of fics based on popular or influential authors who are writing at any given time. For a while it was Romance, then PWP, then really abstract, then a very "real life" voice style, and right now it seems to be a mishmash but I find the "no hope" ending to be quite in right now. I think it has to do with people working out their feelings on HBP and Draco's role.

Following HBP there was a real lull in new fics. Prior to the release of the book, there had been a cliche list floating around and "Draco and Hermione are Head Boy and Head Girl" - in SOME capacity (be it currently, in the past, etc), and book six put a huge dent in the way that the gross majority of writers chose to put these two together. Authors are now adapting and I find that the ship is really gaining in momentum and popularity (after a definite downtime).

[a-white-rain.livejournal.com]

As a fan of both pairings, you point out exactly WHY I love them both. They make no sense, they hurt and they probably won't work out in the long run. A train-wreck, they both are.

And hot.

[askani.livejournal.com]

whoa, when did R/Hr become confirmed? i must have missed it.

[askani.livejournal.com]

there's also Ron/Draco which is along the same lines as the other ships. hopeless but yet so fun to read.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I always thought the ending of HBP sort of confirmed it, as well as JKR's comments... but then again, I didn't think R/T would end up being canon. ^^

[bunney.livejournal.com]

To piggyback on what maplesugrrrl said above, Draco/Hermione is, in my opinion, going very strong. The thing is, unless you're active or even just pay attention to the pairing, you may not realize how popular it is. I write almost solely Draco/Hermione and while it's a challenge, I think I do a fine job putting them together in a believeable fashion. I mean, let's face it...is Snape/Hermione believeable? No. Harry/Snape? Absolutely not. Yet these are very popular pairings with writers who do a fine job with them.

You don't have to understand the pairing to understand that it *works*

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Hmm... I think it's more plausible than H/D and Hr/D, because Ginny doesn't have as much to hold against Draco, but that it still isn't overly plausible.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

See, I think instability makes for a bad relationship that won't work. I've known people in instable relationships, and they ended up hurt.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think in a sense, Draco will be. But not to a point where he'll ever be remotely close with the trio. And I don't think he'll turn, but I think he'll hesitate.

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what you mean - do you mean, the complexity? Or something else?

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

But see, I see there being as much anger between Hermione and Draco as Snape and Harry.


That said, I am sure there are good D/Hr fics out there, I just haven't come across any (though I've seen Draco/Ginny written well, I believe).

[bunney.livejournal.com]

Oh, the anger is there and in my opinion, the key to writing good, believeable D/Hr fiction is to use that anger and their past as a solid background to their relationship and not to ignore it. To use a cliche, there's a fine line between love and hate and many people are attracted to someone they [think they] dislike. Plus, you have to remember that they're children in the books and children grow up and some even overcome their childish selves to be nice, respectable people. It's a mistake to think that a person's personality is fully formed and unchangeable at 16 years old. If Draco is redeemed at the end of Book 7, I think there's a good possibility that he could go on to be, maybe not nice, but not evil. If he was real, that is ;)

Another thing that works in their favor is Hermione's tendency to support lost causes. I think she would actually be the first to forgive Draco, if she knew the full story of what caused his downfall.

For the record, the ships that I don't understand and make little sense to me are ones that are fairly popular - Draco/Snape, Hermione/any Weasley but Ron, Harry/Snape, Hermione/Voldemort, James/anyone but Lily...but there are people who would argue with me until the end of time that they make perfect sense. I don't know what pairings you prefer, but I'll just bet there's someone out there who has a good argument why it could never work. Such is the beauty of fandom, huh?

[bunney.livejournal.com]

That said, I am sure there are good D/Hr fics out there, I just haven't come across any

Oh, and regarding this...you just aren't looking in the right places ;) There's *plenty* of great D/Hr fic out there, just as there is for most any popular pairing. You have to want to expend the effort looking for it and actually want to look for it to be able to find good fic. Out of all the Hermione/Snape authors out there, I've only found one whose work I would bother with...most of it is unreadable. IMO.

[astralis-lumen.livejournal.com]

(Here from hogwarts_today)

I 'ship Draco and Hermione. You do raise good points (and I am so glad that you're respectful and polite about it, unlike a lot of people I've come across), but I must disagree on some of them.

For Hermione/Draco, the counter-argument to that I often see is, "but he'll be redeemed!"

IMHO, Draco doesn't need to be redeemed (because I can't see him as truly evil, only spouting propoganda and what he's been taught all his life, not to mention he's too wussy for evil) so much as he needs a good kick in the head and a change in perspective. HBP has done a lot of Draco-head-kicking, what with his breakdown in the washroom and hesitance to kill Dumbledore. It's a little late, but it'll do. I think Draco is truly beginning to change his perspective and the way he sees the world, especially as he's on the run with Snape, his parents' life is in danger and he's no longer in the sheltered world of Hogwarts or the Malfoy Manor. So maybe we'll see the results of a summer's worth of his life being in danger (if he doesn't die, which would really really suck) in Book 7.

First, Hermione takes pride in who she is...And Hermione, while she doesn't seem particularly close with her parents, does seem to think highly of them. People who have stable relationships with their parents aren't going to date men who would gladly have witnessed their murders - even if they've "come clean." That's not something you'll forget.

Second, Hermione and Harry are two of the most unforgiving people we see in canon...Hermione, to her defense, didn't take part in the stalking, but she led Umbridge into the forest (which, while that was self defense, was still disturbing because of the lack of fear later. Nearly killing someone isn't something to shrug off, no matter what).

Draco's hatred of Hermione's heritage is a huge obstacle, I will give you that - but people change. As I mentioned before, Draco is going under a huge amount of growing up and having to face everything he's been taught.

Hermione's manipulation of Umbridge and her almost killing of her is rather Slytherin like of her, don't you think? Hermione is definitely not the innocent, completely studious Gryffindor a lot of people seem to think she is (in my opinion, anyway), and actually has a rather high amount of Slytherin qualities - ambition (for I can't see Hermione sitting around at a low level job where she isn't intellectually challenged or helping the world in a big way, especially not with all her talents), manipulation (see: Umbridge), cleverness (she's done tons of crafty and clever things, like the coins or the DA list) and so on. As well, she has a lot of Draco's qualities - intelligence, creativity, sort of socially inept... They're more like each other than you might think.

And as for forgiving, Hermione's always been more forgiving of Draco, concerned for his safety and doubting of his evilness than Harry or Ron ever were. She gets all anxious when Draco is attacked by Buckbeak, thinks that maybe Moody went too far with the bouncing ferret incident ("He could've really gotten hurt!" or something like that). I think she'd be more willing to accept Draco's change than either of the boys - although bk11 had Harry and Ron be the ones who first accepted Draco's change in her 'Happy Hour' and Hermione bringing up a lot of the same points that you did here, yet they still get together in the end. (Definitely rec that one).

Even if Draco did redeem himself - and to be honest, after HBP I'm not sure he won't - he isn't going to ever be a nice person, and I definitely don't ever see him being forgiven enough by Harry and Hermione for a stable romance.

I don't see Draco as a nice person either. I really hate most of the stories that have Draco as this smooky wookie sweetie pie who is really Just A Gryffindor At Heart. And the path to forgiveness for Hermione will be a difficult one, despite her inclination to think better of Draco than Harry or Ron. But that is what makes the ship so interesting - the way Hermione and Draco will overcome their hatred and prejudices for each other and have lots of hot steamy sex. ;)

[kitsune13.livejournal.com]

(here from Hogwarts Today)

Gods forgive me for defending Harry/Draco, but...

Fiction is NOT obligated to follow the rules of real-life relationships. Literature has its own rules, which have to do with making a compelling story. "Conforming to real-life healthy relationships" isn't necessary. Nobody pulls the "OMG UNREALISTIC AND UNHEALTHY!11!" card on Catherine and Heathcliff, Beatrice and Benedick, Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy. If it were necessary for the story that the characters get married, have a million babies, and live happily ever after, then "looks like a real-life healthy relationship" might be more important. But for a lot of stories, it simply isn't.

[mistersean.livejournal.com]

I get the impression that most fans of the various Draco 'ships don't particularly care about canon plausibility...

I mean, if you stick to canon then Draco is due for some time in Azkaban for the things he did in HBP, although I guess that could lead to some sweet Draco/Dementor action :)

[silver-osiris.livejournal.com]

If we're going with current canon -to be fair, I honestly think the idea of any Draco ship will suffer from some instability at some point. Even in the probably closest-to-canon ship of Draco/Pansy and especially after HBP since he's basically on the run.

He's tried to walk the walk after talking the talk and ultimately is just not cut out for the role of a murderer. Does that make him more stable and nice because he couldn't off the ol' man? No. But I think it does give him something to think about. He's not perfect and will never come even close to being so.
I don't think he's nice boy at heart. I think he's cunning and more concerned about saving his own hide- but that doesn't necessarily mean it's impossible for anyone to maintain a relationship with him.

And no I'm not promoting abusive relationships in any way, but my idea of a good relationship might not be someone else's idea. I like a guy that can keep me on my toes and knows how to push my buttons. Someone I can argue with basically and who keeps things interesting. But on the outside, that to someone else may look like a bad relationship.

As far as the issue of being forgiven goes, I do think Harry and Hermione are both types to forgive, but not forget. They may eventually be like..okay the past is the past but I don't believe for one minute they would turn their back on him. And I certainly don't think Draco trusts easily if at all.

Beyond that, we haven't seen much evidence of Draco really going out of his way to hurt Hermione in a while. I think he just mostly ignores her and she's definitely past the point of being hurt (although she's probably still offended) when he throws the slurs her way. In Harry's case- I think this is a pairing of more equal footing. Harry gives it back as good as he gets. For every figurative punch Draco throws, Harry throws one back. I think that makes it more easy for Harry to forgive because he's done some nasty stuff to Draco that he has actually felt guilty for in canon (sectumsempra). Not that Draco hasn't deserved it and occassionally I've felt vice versa. I don't think one has necessarily outdone the other in being unpleasant to each other.

I'm not a fan of turning Draco into some "happily frolocking through the fields" boy. I think the key with these ships with Draco is just realizing there are somethings you'll never agree on and moving past that. All in all- if people waited around to be with someone they agreed on every little thing in the world about, they'd wait forever. I think they would just agree to disagree and so forth.

Over in all, it would never really matter to me if my ship was canon (H/D) because I'm perfectly content with the way it is now.

If anything else... all the dislike and angry tension makes for some great hatesex. ^_^

[victorialupin.livejournal.com]

In general, I'd agree with that. But, the thing is that 87% of fan fiction isn't really about the "happily ever after" or what real relationships are like. Stories that revolves around Harry/Draco (or Draco/Hermione) aren't necessarily realistic and the instability would certainly not be a good thing in RL, but the problems that we see as "bad" in RL are good in fan fiction simply because people find them entertaining.

So, yeah, I don't think that H/D or D/H could ever really work or that the relationships are healthy, but even though I don't personally like them, I can certain see why other people do. Fiction isn't RL, it's just entertainment.

Here via something

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

and I definitely don't ever see him being forgiven enough by Harry and Hermione for a stable romance.
And the Harry/Draco and Hermione/Draco shippers do. Just because you don't see something doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't. As you said, these are your thoughts, but you are not the authority on which ships can work and which can't. Shippers write fan fiction, where they invent their own storylines with the help of which their characters of choice can and do get together. Of course most Harry/Draco and Draco/Hermione shippers don't think their ship's going to happen in canon -- JKR sank Draco/Hermione years ago in an interview, and if H/D becomes canon, I will probably die of sheer surprise.

Shipping is for fun, not for serious, in short.

[abbers44.livejournal.com]

Instable? Sure. But H/D isn't about happily ever after. Quite frankly, I would be utterly surprised if Harry or Draco ever had a healthy, long lasting relationship with anyone (Chainsmoking!Harry, anyone?), but even if they're screwy together, at least they're together.

It's so hard for me to explain this properly. For the longest time I couldn't really understand the allure of H/D. Sure, I'd read it on occasion, but I never really got into it. And then I read Underwater Light by mistful and just got it.

Here's (http://www.livejournal.com/community/ship_manifesto/18097.html) a much more articulate manifesto of H/D. Perhaps that will make it clearer. (By the way, it was written pre-HBP, hence any inconsistancies.)